@ev
Re: %TsiLcVVXL

@ninabreznik @arj Yeah! I'm using a slightly different version of ssb-viewer to host my feed on http://evbogue.com/

I think I saw it getting crawled recently, so most of the network will probably be available off of my site soon in search engines.

@ev dug It worked! ![Screenshot_2017-06-28-21-55-29.png](&0z+5gbH98vsWUmkGqtZ97CSL8
@ev followed @dominic_phone
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %bNUMWkvfM

@dominic Things seem to be much better now.

@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev dug Yeah I wasn't getting any successful connections from you at all. I just di
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %bNUMWkvfM

Sometimes it quits with Done in 1662.93s., which I think is flume related? What is that?

@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %bNUMWkvfM

@dominic something is still definitely wrong with the latest scuttlebot + ebt + secret-stack.

If you do a clean clone and install is it still working for you? I wonder if I'm missing a dep or something. No errors, just locking.

@ev sent a private message
@ev dug Keep forgotten how terrible biking is in most parts of the US. But on a pos
@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev dug this
@ev in #DayInTheLife
Re: %dUbZXc/VE

But what I really want to know is: who owns the pirate bus parked at the Flea Market?

@ev in #DayInTheLife
Re: %dUbZXc/VE

@dominic I once took a test drive of one of these through Google HQ in Manhattan, and I nearly died.

I didn't quite capture the endless lots full of used vehicles that are almost everywhere here. I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to get a gas powered locomotive with either two or four wheels, I'm just not sure if I'm ready for that either.

Transportation is this weird political problem here though. You're either a driver, or not. And we are def not, which seems to work out fine right now.

@ev dug [@kas](@dBQlwh9Gtr3i5YMOGtIOKtGNVepeu+nyb6KGl1vtOcM=.ed25519) They appear t
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %bNUMWkvfM

restarted. node is still eating 90% of my CPU, and 96% of my memory. I turned off swap, so maybe master splinter will bring some water.

@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %bNUMWkvfM

@dominic yah, something is seriously wrong on my vps, hence the hang probably.

Screenshot of top:

memory.png

I'll restart it and see if memory maxes out again.

@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %bNUMWkvfM

h.evbogue.com is my local, because once upon a time I associated a domain name with @8Qee0I/... when I was playing around with using cjdns and sbot at the same time.

@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %bNUMWkvfM

@dominic hmmm... my server is up, but it appears to have hung. No errors, the last output is

Disconnected h.evbogue.com:8008:@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519
Connected 78.47.45.36:8008:@TRE4lNNXrtx3KK9Tgks2so2PjCP6w9tRvsy7wyqiyo4=.ed25519
Connected h.evbogue.com:8008:@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519
Disconnected 78.47.45.36:8008:@TRE4lNNXrtx3KK9Tgks2so2PjCP6w9tRvsy7wyqiyo4=.ed25519
Disconnected h.evbogue.com:8008:@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519
Connected h.evbogue.com:8008:@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519

The ssb-viewer feed on my site isn't loading either, so it's definitely down!

restarting it now.

@ev in #DayInTheLife
Re: %dUbZXc/VE

@kas Small yellow flowers, I don't know! I'll have to ask around. They grow between the cracks in the concrete.

@arj My friend died on a bike in NYC many years ago, and after that I swore off biking forever. My fear about biking in this city is almost no one does, so the cars aren't used to watching out for bikes. It's an option, but I'm not sure if I want to go there yet. Probably a better idea is moving closer to work.

@ev in #DayInTheLife

a day in the life, fayettenam

When you don't have a car, sometimes you have to walk to work. @gb and I decided to take a few photos along the way!

There are twenty blobs below, give them a chance to load. Can you spot the $20?

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

5.jpg

6.jpg

7.jpg

8.jpg

9.jpg

10.jpg

11.jpg

12.jpg

13.jpg

14.jpg

15.jpg

16.jpg

17.jpg

18.jpg

19.jpg

20.jpg

Last photo = arrival at work after a two and half hour meander.

@ev
Re: %YzK2YxYXa

@kas you're probably running ssb-ebt twice somewhere. Try removing the plugin from your .ssb/config?

@ev dug I haven't noticed bandwidth being a problem, but I just switched to ebt any
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %bNUMWkvfM

@dominic @cel

I updated my local and pub to the latest secret-stack, does this look better?

{
  "sync": {
    "since": 113763825,
    "plugins": {
      "last": 113763825,
      "keys": 113763825,
      "clock": 113763825,
      "feed": 113763825,
      "time": 113763825,
      "friends": 113763825,
      "links2": 113763825,
      "query": 113763825
    },
    "sync": true
  },
  "gossip": {
    "@J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=.ed25519": {
      "address": "net:evbogue.com:8008~shs:@J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=.ed25519",
      "source": "seed",
      "state": "connected",
      "stateChange": 1498488498045,
      "failure": 0,
      "client": true,
      "stats": {
        "duration": {
          "mean": 11206.4,
          "stdev": 422.3906248959647,
          "count": 5,
          "sum": 56032,
          "sqsum": 628809074
        },
        "rtt": {
          "mean": 73,
          "stdev": 0,
          "count": 1,
          "sum": 73,
          "sqsum": 5329
        },
        "skew": {
          "mean": -497.5,
          "stdev": 0,
          "count": 1,
          "sum": -497.5,
          "sqsum": 247506.25
        }
      }
    },
    "@DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=.ed25519": {
      "address": "net:128.199.132.182:8008~shs:@DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=.ed25519",
      "source": "seed",
      "state": "connecting",
      "stateChange": 1498488505919,
      "failure": 2,
      "client": true,
      "stats": {
        "duration": {
          "mean": 8489.25,
          "stdev": 4928.494921119428,
          "count": 8,
          "sum": 67914,
          "sqsum": 770859422
        },
        "rtt": {
          "mean": 699,
          "stdev": 0,
          "count": 1,
          "sum": 699,
          "sqsum": 488601
        },
        "skew": {
          "mean": -4.5,
          "stdev": 0,
          "count": 1,
          "sum": -4.5,
          "sqsum": 20.25
        }
      }
    },
    "@5XaVcAJ5DklwuuIkjGz4lwm2rOnMHHovhNg7BFFnyJ8=.ed25519": {
      "address": "net:104.236.22.57:8008~shs:@5XaVcAJ5DklwuuIkjGz4lwm2rOnMHHovhNg7BFFnyJ8=.ed25519",
      "source": "seed",
      "state": "connecting",
      "stateChange": 1498488505915,
      "failure": 1,
      "client": true,
      "stats": {
        "duration": {
          "mean": 14034.666666666666,
          "stdev": 7394.978852046991,
          "count": 6,
          "sum": 84208,
          "sqsum": 1509945484
        },
        "rtt": {
          "mean": 124,
          "stdev": 0,
          "count": 1,
          "sum": 124,
          "sqsum": 15376
        },
        "skew": {
          "mean": 7,
          "stdev": 0,
          "count": 1,
          "sum": 7,
          "sqsum": 49
        }
      }
    }
  },
  "ebt": {
    "@5XaVcAJ5DklwuuIkjGz4lwm2rOnMHHovhNg7BFFnyJ8=.ed25519": {
      "other": 2984,
      "common": 1,
      "diff": 2866,
      "localReq": 1,
      "progress": {
        "sync": 0,
        "feeds": 1,
        "recv": 4,
        "send": 0,
        "total": 4,
        "unknown": 0
      },
      "feeds": 1
    },
    "@DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=.ed25519": {
      "other": 2877,
      "common": 0,
      "diff": 2867,
      "progress": {
        "sync": 0,
        "feeds": 0,
        "recv": 0,
        "send": 0,
        "total": 0,
        "unknown": 0
      },
      "feeds": 0
    },
    "@J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=.ed25519": {
      "other": 2884,
      "common": 1,
      "diff": 2866,
      "localReq": 1,
      "progress": {
        "sync": 0,
        "feeds": 1,
        "recv": 4,
        "send": 0,
        "total": 4,
        "unknown": 0
      },
      "feeds": 1
    }
  }
}
@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %bNUMWkvfM

@dominic nice!

{
  "sync": {
    "since": 113562287,
    "plugins": {
      "last": 113562287,
      "keys": 113562287,
      "clock": 113562287,
      "feed": 113562287,
      "time": 113562287,
      "friends": 113562287,
      "links2": 113562287,
      "query": 113562287
    },
    "sync": true
  },
  "gossip": {
    "@DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=.ed25519": {
      "address": "net:128.199.132.182:8008~shs:@DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7c
E8aR9TQ=.ed25519",
      "source": "seed",
      "state": "connected",
      "stateChange": 1498401082793,
      "failure": 0,
      "client": true,
      "stats": {
        "duration": {
          "mean": 6928.836956521739,
          "stdev": 11074.469921829386,
          "count": 92,
          "sum": 637453,
          "sqsum": 15700045237
        },
        "rtt": {
          "mean": 510,
          "stdev": 0,
          "count": 1,
          "sum": 510,
          "sqsum": 260100
        },
        "skew": {
          "mean": 169,
          "stdev": 0,
          "count": 1,
          "sum": 169,
          "sqsum": 28561
        }
      }
    },
    "@5XaVcAJ5DklwuuIkjGz4lwm2rOnMHHovhNg7BFFnyJ8=.ed25519": {
      "address": "net:104.236.22.57:8008~shs:@5XaVcAJ5DklwuuIkjGz4lwm2rOnMHHovhNg7BF
FnyJ8=.ed25519",
      "source": "seed",
      "state": "connected",
      "stateChange": 1498401094191,
      "failure": 0,
      "client": true,
      "stats": {
        "duration": {
          "mean": 10999.569444444445,
          "stdev": 11777.344992760922,
          "count": 72,
          "sum": 791969,
          "sqsum": 18698139579
        },
        "rtt": {
          "mean": 99,
          "stdev": 0,
          "count": 1,
          "sum": 99,
          "sqsum": 9801
        },
        "skew": {
          "mean": 42.5,
          "stdev": 0,
          "count": 1,
          "sum": 42.5,
          "sqsum": 1806.25
        }
      }
    },
    "@J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=.ed25519": {
      "address": "net:evbogue.com:8008~shs:@J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJk
s3k=.ed25519",
      "source": "seed",
      "state": "connected",
      "stateChange": 1498401095313,
      "failure": 0,
      "client": true,
      "stats": {
        "duration": {
          "mean": 10158.685714285713,
          "stdev": 2247.442492783158,
          "count": 70,
          "sum": 711108,
          "sqsum": 7577492524
        },
        "rtt": {
          "mean": 150,
          "stdev": 0,
          "count": 1,
          "sum": 150,
          "sqsum": 22500
        },
        "skew": {
          "mean": -467,
          "stdev": 0,
          "count": 1,
          "sum": -467,
          "sqsum": 218089
        }
      }
    }
  },
  "ebt": {
    "@5XaVcAJ5DklwuuIkjGz4lwm2rOnMHHovhNg7BFFnyJ8=.ed25519": {
      "other": 2976,
      "common": 2,
      "diff": 2857,
      "localReq": 2,
      "progress": {
        "sync": 1,
        "feeds": 2,
        "recv": 4,
        "send": 0,
        "total": 4,
        "unknown": 0
      },
      "feeds": 3,
      "remoteReq": 1
    },
    "@DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=.ed25519": {
      "other": 2869,
      "common": 1,
      "diff": 2858,
      "localReq": 1,
      "progress": {
        "sync": 1,
        "feeds": 1,
        "recv": 0,
        "send": 0,
        "total": 1,
        "unknown": 0
      },
      "feeds": 1
    },
    "@J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=.ed25519": {
      "other": 2876,
      "common": 1,
      "diff": 2858,
      "localReq": 1,
      "progress": {
        "sync": 0,
        "feeds": 1,
        "recv": 4,
        "send": 0,
        "total": 4,
        "unknown": 0
      },
      "feeds": 1
    }
  }
}

my config:

{
  "host": "127.0.0.1",
  "gossip": {"global": false},
  "replicate": {"legacy": false},
  "seeds": [
    "net:128.199.132.182:8008~shs:DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=",
    "net:104.236.22.57:8008~shs:5XaVcAJ5DklwuuIkjGz4lwm2rOnMHHovhNg7BFFnyJ8=",
    "net:evbogue.com:8008~shs:J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k="
  ]
}
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %bNUMWkvfM

but having installed ssb-status this looks pretty good

sync:
since: 113490805
plugins:
last: 113490805
keys: 113490805
clock: 113490805
feed: 113490805
time: 113490805
friends: 113490805
links2: 113490805
query: 113490805
sync: true
gossip:
address    source    state    stateChange    failure    client    stats
@5XaVcAJ    
net:104.236.22.57:8008~shs:@5XaVcAJ5DklwuuIkjGz4lwm2rOnMHHovhNg7BFFnyJ8=.ed25519
seed    connected    6 seconds ago    0    true    
duration: 10346.75+-6223.84*4
rtt: 200+-0*1
skew: -54+-0*1
@J2VKbbf    
net:evbogue.com:8008~shs:@J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=.ed25519
seed    connecting    6 seconds ago    0    true    
duration: 10757.25+-1224.7*4
rtt: 159+-0*1
skew: -533.5+-0*1
@DTNmX+4    
net:128.199.132.182:8008~shs:@DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=.ed25519
seed    connected    1 second ago    0    true    
duration: 8114.17+-3955.75*6
rtt: 707+-0*1
skew: -27.5+-0*1
ebt:
other    common    diff    localReq    progress    feeds
@5XaVcAJ    2976    1    2858    1    
sync: 0
feeds: 1
recv: 4
send: 0
total: 4
unknown: 0
1
@DTNmX+4    2869    0    2859    _    
sync: 0
feeds: 0
recv: 0
send: 0
total: 0
unknown: 0
0
@J2VKbbf    2876    1    2858    1    
sync: 0
feeds: 1
recv: 4
send: 0
total: 4
unknown: 0
1
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %bNUMWkvfM

@dominic what is an inactive timeout, and how do I remove it? Because my local is connecting to my server every minute as well.

@ev in #patchwork
Re: %0OY+mZo8x

ok, I just wanted to make sure this wasn't an issue with all of the clients.

@ev in #patchwork
Re: %0OY+mZo8x

@nanomonkey are you having this error with %patchfoo or %minbase as well?

@ev in #patchfoo
Re: %+qDWF5UBj

@howard klein

Are you asking about

sbot invite.create 1

from your command line, or something more sophisticated?

@ev dug I made a 'generic social network' styles.css which has helped me see the li
@ev

Progress update

This morning I invested a small amount of time into bending an old version of ssb-viewer to my will. The idea was to turn my website into a feed of what I am up to.

Two things I thought were very useful were git updates with hashes, as well as links to the root of threads. I've implemented these things in a simple way.

Now people can go to evbogue.com or gwenbell.com and see our entire feeds, in all of their cryptographic glory.

sviewer.png

How can I further improve this?

@ev in #patchbay-dev
Re: %SPm+qoqzh

@gb Ready until tomorrow at 3:25pm.

@ev in #patchbay-dev
Re: %SPm+qoqzh

master splinter just needed to pour some water on @gb's browser, as it started some sort of live video feed without her permission and just kept talking and talking about 'entrepreneurship' and 'influencers'.

@ev dug It generally happens when I'm using chromium, and usually looking at someth
@ev changed something in about
@ev in #patchbay-dev
Re: %SPm+qoqzh

@dominic does master splinter pour cold water on %minbase?

@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev dug > The luddite approach has been a massive improvement for a few years now.
@ev pushed to %MeCTQrz9u...
@ev dug Been brewing cold brew the last couple of summers as well. Its so refreshin
@ev
Re: %AuPTwkL1x

hey @6w0f5bH...,

@gb is in the middle of a server migration right now, so some links are down. We're working on getting her books back up at gwenbell.com right now.

I appreciate your patience.

@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev pushed to %LwAM2X9dd...
@ev pushed to %MeCTQrz9u...
@ev pushed to %MeCTQrz9u...
@ev
Re: %bMPXbvZfH

minbase.png

@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev in #cjdns

Cjdns v20 Release [cryptpad.fr]

@ev pushed to %MeCTQrz9u...
@ev pushed to %MeCTQrz9u...
@ev dug **Basic Bread ** Basic bread is made from flour, yeast, water and salt. Th
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev dug I picked up a little jade plant from the neighbourhood farmers' market toda
@ev in #ssbc
Re: %7a4hXeESi

A good test is can you disable that file and the rest of the app keeps working. - @dominic

^ better said.

@ev in #ssbc
Re: %7a4hXeESi

@mixmix if you use a nail to hammer a nail into a hammer do you nail a hammer into a nail?

@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %wjrHQNQBl

ok, this looks better:

CONNECT { host: 'evbogue.com',
  port: 8008,
  key: '@J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=.ed25519',
  source: 'seed',
  announcers: 15,
  duration: { mean: 11915, stdev: 0, count: 1, sum: 11915, sqsum: 141967225 },
  stateChange: 1498186076939,
  state: undefined,
  client: true,
  disconnect: [Function],
  ping:
   { rtt: { mean: 562, stdev: 0, count: 1, sum: 562, sqsum: 315844 },
     skew: { mean: -700, stdev: 0, count: 1, sum: -700, sqsum: 490000 } },
  failure: 0 }

Seeing a lot of failures from @cel's pub, but assume it's because it needs to be updated to ssb-ebt@1.1.2

@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %wjrHQNQBl

@dominic hmm... I'm on latest scuttlebot on my server, and minbase with latest scuttlebot and ssb-ebt + epidemic-broadcast-trees on my local. Is something not quite right? I've been wondering if I'm missing a dependency or something.

@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %wjrHQNQBl

@dominic I'm getting this off @larpanet. I'm not sure if it's the same thing you're getting

Connected 128.199.132.182:8008:@DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=.ed25519
EBT failed, fallback to legacy { message: 'unexpected end of parent stream',
  name: 'Error',
  stack: 'Error: unexpected end of parent stream\n    at PacketStream.destroy (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/packet-stream/index.js:71:7)\n    at Object.ws.close (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/muxrpc/stream.js:134:23)\n    at EventEmitter.emitter.close (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/muxrpc/index.js:69:8)\n    at Object.peer.disconnect (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/index.js:214:13)\n    at Object.<anonymous> (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/index.js:127:19)\n    at apply (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/muxrpc-validation/index.js:171:15)\n    at Object.disconnect (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/muxrpc-validation/index.js:82:14)\n    at /home/ev/minbase/node_modules/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/schedule.js:215:18\n    at Array.forEach (native)\n    at Timeout._onTimeout (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/schedule.js:212:31)' }
replication ended: @J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=.ed25519 Error: unexpected end of parent stream
    at PacketStream.destroy (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/packet-stream/index.js:71:7)
    at Object.ws.close (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/muxrpc/stream.js:134:23)
    at EventEmitter.emitter.close (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/muxrpc/index.js:69:8)
    at Object.peer.disconnect (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/index.js:214:13)
    at Object.<anonymous> (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/index.js:127:19)
    at apply (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/muxrpc-validation/index.js:171:15)
    at Object.disconnect (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/muxrpc-validation/index.js:82:14)
    at /home/ev/minbase/node_modules/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/schedule.js:215:18
    at Array.forEach (native)
    at Timeout._onTimeout (/home/ev/minbase/node_modules/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/schedule.js:212:31)
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %wjrHQNQBl

@dominic yah, me too. investigating.

@ev pushed to %LwAM2X9dd...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %wjrHQNQBl

ok, I think this is working now. Weirdly enough I think pull-many was out of date, and I had some sort of version conflict going on.

@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %wjrHQNQBl

@cel ok, I explicitly defined both of these dependencies in %minbase's package.json and now I'm getting

CONNECT { host: '128.199.132.182',
  port: 8008,
  key: '@DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=.ed25519',
  source: 'seed',
  announcers: 24,
  duration: null }
CONNECT { host: '104.236.22.57',
  port: 8008,
  key: '@5XaVcAJ5DklwuuIkjGz4lwm2rOnMHHovhNg7BFFnyJ8=.ed25519',
  source: 'seed',
  announcers: 2,
  duration: null }
CONNECT { host: 'evbogue.com',
  port: 8008,
  key: '@J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=.ed25519',
  source: 'seed',
  announcers: 14,
  duration: null }
Connected 104.236.22.57:8008:@5XaVcAJ5DklwuuIkjGz4lwm2rOnMHHovhNg7BFFnyJ8=.ed25519
Connected 128.199.132.182:8008:@DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=.ed25519
Connected evbogue.com:8008:@J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=.ed25519

I think that means I'm replicating, lemme try it for a few and see if I'm still receiving messages.

@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %wjrHQNQBl

Also when I use

{
  "gossip": {"global": false},
  "replicate": {"legacy": false},
  "seeds": [
    "net:128.199.132.182:8008~shs:DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=",
    "net:104.236.22.57:8008~shs:5XaVcAJ5DklwuuIkjGz4lwm2rOnMHHovhNg7BFFnyJ8=",
    "net:evbogue.com:8008~shs:J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k="
  ]

on my local I stopped sending/receiving messages.

@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %wjrHQNQBl

I'm still getting these:

Connected 128.199.132.182:8008:@DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=.ed25519
EBT failed, fallback to legacy { message: 'expected ebt.replicate({version: 2})',
  name: 'Error',
  stack: 'Error: expected ebt.replicate({version: 2})\n    at Object.replicate (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/ssb-ebt/index.js:118:13)\n    at Object.hooked (/home/wh
f/scuttlebot/node_modules/hoox/index.js:10:15)\n    at Object.localCall (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc/local-api.js:31:31)\n    at Object.<anonymous> (/home/wh
f/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc/local-api.js:37:22)\n    at PacketStreamSubstream.stream.read (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc/stream.js:67:23)\n    at PacketSt
ream._onstream (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/packet-stream/index.js:230:11)\n    at PacketStream.write (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/packet-stream/index.js:135:
41)\n    at /home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc/pull-weird.js:56:15\n    at /home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/pull-stream/sinks/drain.js:24:37\n    at /home/whf/scut
tlebot/node_modules/pull-goodbye/node_modules/pull-stream/throughs/filter.js:17:11' }
replication ended: @DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=.ed25519 Error: expected ebt.replicate({version: 2})
    at Object.replicate (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/ssb-ebt/index.js:118:13)
    at Object.hooked (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/hoox/index.js:10:15)
    at Object.localCall (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc/local-api.js:31:31)
    at Object.<anonymous> (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc/local-api.js:37:22)
    at PacketStreamSubstream.stream.read (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc/stream.js:67:23)
    at PacketStream._onstream (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/packet-stream/index.js:230:11)
    at PacketStream.write (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/packet-stream/index.js:135:41)
    at /home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc/pull-weird.js:56:15
    at /home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/pull-stream/sinks/drain.js:24:37
    at /home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/pull-goodbye/node_modules/pull-stream/throughs/filter.js:17:11

Am I doing something wrong?

@ev pushed to %MeCTQrz9u...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %wjrHQNQBl

@dominic @cel This works for me. I've updated %minbase to use the latest scuttlebot and ssb-ebt@1.1.0.

Lemme roll this out on my pub.

@ev dug ## ssb-ebt@1.1.0 I just fixed a thing in `ssb-ebt`, and now it's doing the
@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %HoghjkVFa

@cel Is @myf using Patchwork classic still? It might not work with flume.

@ev in #patchbay-dev
Re: %SPm+qoqzh

@dominic I'm not using swap memory over here. I wonder if your hard drive is slow (is it an ssd?) or it could be damage? My Thinkpad has an ssd, so that speeds things up a bit.

@ev dug Did dinosaurs have scales or feathers? ![Adorable_ff70d3_5461493.jpg](&nxp
@ev
Re: %u6wLrhwK6

@dominic yes, you'd think this would solve it, and it does, until the columns get below 500px.

I'm using the code

* {
  word-wrap: break-word;
}

pre {
    height: auto;
    max-height: 200px;
    overflow: auto;
    background-color: #eeeeee;
    word-break: normal !important;
    word-wrap: normal !important;
    white-space: pre !important;
}

in %minbase's styles to make sure words get broken across the board and code blocks get a horizontal scroll on their own div.

However, the issue persists when you open three columns or more at the same time.

@ev dug Finally, I dropped in jquery and a little bit of a js to make digs use an a
@ev
Re: %u6wLrhwK6

@dominic Yes, this a recent regression related to opening multiple hypertabs -- which is what I want to do with the %micropub client that depends on %minbase.

I'm unable to prevent a horizontal scrollbar from appearing with more than two tabs if I use the css

.scroller {
  width: 100%;
  margin-left: auto;
  margin-right: auto;
}

.scroller__wrapper {
  max-width: 600px;
  flex: 1;
}

so I'm instead using

.scroller {
  max-width: 600px;
  margin-left: auto;
  margin-right: auto;
}

.scroller__wrapper {
  width: 100%;
  flex: 1;
}

I have no idea why the horizontal scrollbar appears with the first block of code, it just does and that is very annoying so I decided to regress to a hugging vertical scroll bar until I figure it out.

You might remember we had this same issue appear in the early days of patchbay, and at the time I was also unable to figure out why the issue persisted. Maybe it's a bug in css?

@ev in #patchbay-dev
Re: %SPm+qoqzh

@dominic cool!

I'm running %minbase / %minbay on a Thinkpad S431 with 4 gigs of ram. That's not necessarily a slow computer, I just want to keep things fast and it's easy to notice with top when a program is running up memory. Now that flume is merged the whole sbot/minbase stack seems to be running fast and lite.

minbase.png

@ev dug I tested [%minbay](%UTn/AoIVVF/4yKI7PKIWrHeWb1q7sTMCWVyYY1XTiCk=.sha256) an
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %MeCTQrz9u...
@ev dug I hacked up a debug script in mutant to see how many and of which types of
@ev dug yes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83nFiPoSuzU
@ev in #science

Were dinosaurs real? Go.

@ev dug this
@ev in #stoicism
Re: %aJMzTWuW2

Typo:

*I didn't mean make anyone frustrated by saying that I'm not a huge fan of buddhism, I'm just not!

@ev in #stoicism
Re: %aJMzTWuW2

@noffle I didn't mean make anyone frustrated by saying that I'm a huge fan of buddhism, I'm just not!

I should probably explain why I'm not, but I'm not completely clear why I'm not yet. I don't know what the bugs are in buddhism, I've just seen them appear over and over again in buddhist practitioners -- enough to be somewhat critical of whether or not the philosophy works. I've seen so many self-proclaimed buddhists over the years lose their shit (get frustrated and/or violent because something happened that they didn't like), and wonder ... why is that? That's part of the on-going endless discussion that @gb and I have all of the time. @gb says she's 95% stoic and 5% zen buddhist. But sometimes I catch a conflict there, and I wonder if maybe giving up the 5% would help?

I do self-identify as a minimalist (I want to keep it to one bag), and I do sometimes apply stoicism to situations. I'm not sure if I'm really a stoic, or if anyone can be, since the stoics lived a long time ago. Even though I consider myself to be living (similar to the stoics) during an age of a collapsing empire, I don't pretend to be able to imagine how it was for Seneca and Marcus as Rome fell -- I wasn't there!

@ev in #stoicism
Re: %aJMzTWuW2

@gb The boat example is another good one to bring up. There are a lot of boaters on scuttlebutt. I've sailed a few times. We were on the bus yesterday with a guy smoking a e-cig behind us with an old lady yellin' at him to 'cut that shit out' and the bus driver telling him to 'cut that shit out' and he was all 'I've been shot four times'.

Stoicism would probably say it could be worse, and ultimately you can just step off the bus to get out of the situation. I don't what buddhism would say.

But we were talking about boats, and how tranquil it might be to live on a boat and not have to take a bus. But then I can't stop myself from thinking about all of the work that goes into living on a boat, and all of things that I might not have accounted for. I try to weigh the struggle of making rent vs what I imagine the issues would be if I traded in the hotel life for the boat life.

@ev in #stoicism
Re: %aJMzTWuW2

Let me explain. @gb and I have endless conversations about buddhism and stoicism and other associated philosophies on a daily basis.

I'm a big fan of stoicism, and not a big fan of buddhism. Why? That's a good question, that's why we have endless conversations.

My favorite real world example of applying these philosophies is walking home from work. As I've posted here before, @gb and I live at a weekly hotel in Fayetteville. It's about an hour and a half walk from our work at the ale house. Every night we get off work and there's a big question of whether or not we should

  1. walk
  2. get a ride
  3. call a cab

One day we walked and it rained on us. That was a very stoic moment. I just kept saying over and over again 'it could be worse, it could be snowing!' and now when we're walking I can say 'it could be worse, it could be raining'.

But I'm never sure what buddhism would say about walking home from work.

@ev in #stoicism
Re: %aJMzTWuW2

@gb haha. oh it turns out I'm frustrated not you, I was just trying to project what was going on for me on to you. That's not cool, is it?

@ev in #stoicism
Re: %aJMzTWuW2

This thread is going to make @gb so frustrated.

@ev sent a private message
@ev dug I have been feeling unexcited about anything computer related yesterday, bu
@ev dug @cel i have built a raspi laptop before: ![rpibox.jpg](&UEnyq3zBD1gc6fcDlhW
@ev sent a private message
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev dug >how the city is being destroyed The Bay Area has been my home base since
@ev

I'm experimenting with displaying my entire ssb feed on the front page of http://evbogue.com/ with %ssb-viewer

@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %MeCTQrz9u...
@ev changed something in about
@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev dug Now that I've seen what's possible on SSB it's hard to go back to other sof
@ev dug Hi. My name is Nick Peihl. I live in the San Juan Islands of WA, USA. I am
@ev dug This is ansuz testing out minbay
@ev followed @Miles
@ev in #git-ssb
Re: %aUFiyLv/a

I use git-ssb as my primary git platform, and Github as a backup for right now. My intention is to delete my Github account at some point in the future.

@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %rBZQB3gcv

@erde74 make sure you're on ssb-ebt@1.0.8. I'm not sure if that'll fix it, but worth a try.

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev dug # flume is merged and scuttlebot@10.0.0 is published :boom:
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %rBZQB3gcv

Awesome. I'm updating %minbase to use ^scuttlebot@10.0.0.

The only thing I noticed is the scuttlebot package.json needs to be updated to declare the latest ssb-ebt, as yarn ended up installing ssb-ebt@0.0.7.

@ev
Re: %5iU+zbgwO

I should also mention you can get Decent running on your local machine too! It works just like scuttlebot. It's just pre-EBT right now, so you won't have that awesome replication strategy.

Keep in mind the Decent network is a little sparser on folks than the main network.

@ev
Re: %5iU+zbgwO

@akkartik Well, you can just log in with your Google ID. No that won't work, nm.

Uhm, ok, so the lite client hopefully works with a key in local storage. In all of the %minbase clients that should be accessible via the :key: icon next to 'Edit Your Profile'. Save your key, paste it in. Also you need a pub, so save that too.

The reason it gives you a new user across browsers is because your browser is sandboxed and so it doesn't have access to your hard drive or your other browsers so that's great because it can't get at your shit.

@ev dug I didn't realize Decent was a separate network. I thought 'decent' was just
@ev
Re: %5iU+zbgwO

I side-lined the blog and now offer %minbase lite clients as well as %decent invites on the front page of http://evbogue.com/

@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev dug this
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %lO8g1W1z6

I think this could also be handled by pruning blobs that have not been used in a long time. For example, if I haven't had a request for blob xxx in y amount of time then I could delete it. This means popular blobs are easily accessible (such as git-ssb repos and @dominic's avatar), but blobs from two years ago that aren't being requested in clients anymore will gradually become unavailable.

@ev in #archlinux
Re: %woo6uWvqN

I pacman -Syued node@8.0.0. Let's see if it breaks everything!

@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev
{
  "type": "issue-edit",
  "root": "%S4ge2EIz0Upz6HxSJ1tDWJrmpEqDJ8rqhnZZsZAUZhc=.sha256",
  "issues": [
    {
      "link": "%S4ge2EIz0Upz6HxSJ1tDWJrmpEqDJ8rqhnZZsZAUZhc=.sha256",
      "open": false
    }
  ]
}
@ev
Re: %S4ge2EIz0

Alright, gitmx.com is back up!

@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %TjfEl/9LN

I updated to ssb-friends@2.0.3 and ssb-ept@1.0.7 and it seems to work with ebt replication. I am seeing this message a lot with @larpanet
and others.

Connected 128.199.132.182:8008:@DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=.ed25519
EBT failed, fallback to legacy { message: 'unexpected end of parent stream',
  name: 'Error',
  stack: 'Error: unexpected end of parent stream\n    at PacketStream.destroy (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/packet-stream/index.js:71:7)\n    at Object.ws.close (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc/stream.js:134:23)\n    at EventEmitter.emitter.close (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc/index.js:69:8)\n    at Object.peer.disconnect (/home/whf/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/index.js:202:13)\n    at Object.<anonymous> (/home/whf/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/index.js:115:19)\n    at apply (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc-validation/index.js:171:15)\n    at Object.disconnect (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc-validation/index.js:82:14)\n    at /home/whf/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/schedule.js:211:18\n    at Array.forEach (native)\n    at Timeout._onTimeout (/home/whf/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/schedule.js:208:31)' }
replication ended: @DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=.ed25519 Error: unexpected end of parent stream
    at PacketStream.destroy (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/packet-stream/index.js:71:7)
    at Object.ws.close (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc/stream.js:134:23)
    at EventEmitter.emitter.close (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc/index.js:69:8)
    at Object.peer.disconnect (/home/whf/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/index.js:202:13)
    at Object.<anonymous> (/home/whf/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/index.js:115:19)
    at apply (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc-validation/index.js:171:15)
    at Object.disconnect (/home/whf/scuttlebot/node_modules/muxrpc-validation/index.js:82:14)
    at /home/whf/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/schedule.js:211:18
    at Array.forEach (native)
    at Timeout._onTimeout (/home/whf/scuttlebot/plugins/gossip/schedule.js:208:31)
Disconnected 128.199.132.182:8008:@DTNmX+4SjsgZ7xyDh5xxmNtFqa6pWi5Qtw7cE8aR9TQ=.ed25519
@ev
Re: %S4ge2EIz0

@cel Setting the hostname to the correct IP worked! I wonder if my reverse dns is wrong? I'm looking into that.

@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev
Re: %S4ge2EIz0

@cel

  "git-ssb-web": {
    "host": "gitmx.com"
  }

Does git-ssb-web scan the sbot log for the pub's IP? I think my pub's IP has changed a few times, maybe that's it?

@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev created an issue
@ev dug GitHub's down. Shame we didn't move patchwork issues / pull requests to git
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %TjfEl/9LN

With legacy replication disabled I wasn't receiving new messages. I was able to send messages though!

@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %TjfEl/9LN

@dominic @cel Yes, ssb-ebt@1.0.4 broke everything, but ssb-ebt@1.0.5 seems to work.

I disabled legacy replication, let's see if I receive new messages.

@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %TjfEl/9LN

I'm updating my flume to see if everything works ok.

@ev in #patchwork
Re: %hh+djF6eD

@dominic Chromium 58.0.3029.110 (64-bit)

I've been off the official pull-scroll for awhile, because it hasn't worked. Instead I've been using an unofficial fork that is basically pull-scroll@0.3.4, the only change is it brings in 17 posts at a time instead of 10. I've tried to update to the latest pull-scroll a few times, and it's always not quite worked.

I updated %minbase to use pull-scroll@1.0.6 to see if that'd fix my issues with tracking pull-scroll, but it hasn't. I hope that fills out a little more information on where I'm at with this client anyway.

@ev in #bugs
Re: %kTsH6DuCa

@jfr Happy to help troubleshoot.

  • What client is @regular using?
  • How long ago was his sbot updated?
  • Is he using scuttlebot on multiple devices? -- could be a forked feed?
@ev in #patchwork
Re: %hh+djF6eD

I updated %minbase to pull-scroll@1.0.6 and scrolling was still jerky, so reverted to the built-in pull-scroll version I'm using. Is there something I need to update in the front-end? With the version I'm using everything has been smooth, but it's based off an older version of pull-scroll with a bigger buffer.

@ev dug [sbotc](%133ulDgs/oC1DXjoK04vDFy6DgVBB/Zok15YJmuhD5Q=.sha256): a command-li
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev
Re: %OsSRdFQ/f

%minbase / %minbay are working better than they used to over the wire. Maybe the pull-ws fix made things better? I haven't checked patchlite though.

Here are some lite client invites if anyone wants to speed test the lite client off evbogue.com. These are for %minbase, so the ui is quite minimal.

http://evbogue.com:3013#ws://evbogue.com:8989~shs:J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=:MmRdLm2kfaSiDFQojeban703NuGuO3Bo3dl1T+lxE4k=
http://evbogue.com:3013#ws://evbogue.com:8989~shs:J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=:ir0VXV4YETkWTo4nBjTT3ayWVpLKmb6GmrVcI+IqS+E=
http://evbogue.com:3013#ws://evbogue.com:8989~shs:J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=:JH28N0hz2HBzn60hMvykIp4NPLv7zzpGKbj766fYKXk=
http://evbogue.com:3013#ws://evbogue.com:8989~shs:J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=:Olq6hzuNCbbDsmXlF8z/kXIRsq95IOLht0sXxgdO3Ug=
http://evbogue.com:3013#ws://evbogue.com:8989~shs:J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=:LM8+YR4XEQqQC0lhIvm557Uj3lNtO9Y8+6PoydPKVN4=
http://evbogue.com:3013#ws://evbogue.com:8989~shs:J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=:jiwXDyK5Lvif0WOKkaTxR7uSaT3QP0I9z+XubgElgXs=
http://evbogue.com:3013#ws://evbogue.com:8989~shs:J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=:vRV+LYtLeAgmMqgMNE3nhQTV4DbZgpla+DBkAM8gyBA=
http://evbogue.com:3013#ws://evbogue.com:8989~shs:J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=:K9C+Mk3dExcg9w/YnQgRjtJaGft9Bc0Ksrt6f0Lj/Us=
http://evbogue.com:3013#ws://evbogue.com:8989~shs:J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=:oBx+7kDdxMW0v3PLP2OzMjQ+KLeFYeSjZ7UegMpzarA=
http://evbogue.com:3013#ws://evbogue.com:8989~shs:J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=:oX60lFmrZsdTeBKKZmTiOPr4goskdKgpIzP9ReUwTCo=
http://evbogue.com:3013#ws://evbogue.com:8989~shs:J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=:zUxgMDSmYXRxPtvf0ntEDDpIaqod7hgAMR1jlWce/k8=
http://evbogue.com:3013#ws://evbogue.com:8989~shs:J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=:pxFB5hrxRFG+DddjUk2ppE54gDSdqDHseO8m+KxB9S8=

If one doesn't work, try another -- it might be used already. follow/following can be a little slow still. The stream loads fast though!

@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev dug Also [Acme](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP1xVpMPn8M&t=928s), one of the
@ev
Re: %4Tk7tL04e

http://suckless.org
http://cat-v.org

@ev dug The problem is the interaction between `./junk/next` (which takes pull-stre
@ev
Re: %4XOllO6le

hachmd: https://hackmd.io/EwUwjAhgnAzARgFgLQHYDGAzFSEogEyUSgFYkMQA2ADgWpAhDjWqA===?edit

Unedited....

# Scuttlebutt June 1/2 2017

## People here
-@dinosaur
-@dominic
-@cel
-@ev
-@gb
-@matt
-@mix
-@piet
-@staltz

## Agenda

- Checkins and introductions
- ???
- Build an agenda


## Possible topics of conversation


- [x] Flume: refactor clients to use lighter/flume-based queries <-- websbot? gb ev mm pg mw mx
    - Flume updates gb s pg ev d
    - status of mentions index? (in memory index of all connections between messages) c mm mw d
- [x] where is development happening -- ? gb github, git-ssb-web or both? c ev v s
- [x] what should I (dominic and gb) work on next? c s mx mw
    - is the tech tree still up to date? Y (is it kept anywhere?)
    - but I could also do stuff that isn't on it, like I could do something that helps andre ("probably blobs will be a huge challenge, or faster sodium for react native, or better storage stack", says andre)
    - otherwise, next candidates are: OOO messages, depject sbot
- [x] Gatherings timezones check mx pg d
- [x] more resources to speed up git + viewer server? c mm
- [ ] common git-ssb primitives? c

## Flume 


matt: any work done with the mentions index ? (have some PW refactor that would benefit from it)
D: a simple index which gives backlinks - includes digs, replies, black~~ , and you could filter it. All in one round-trip
matt: I'm interested in this for optimising some likes queries
matt: would love an index which gives something closer to what I actually want for rollup feeds in PW

D: want to refactor pull-scroll into 2 parts : 
  - the scrolling part (add more to the start + bottom)
  - the rendering part (add data to ... didn't quite get this down) ?

Cel: could walk feed by getting friend feed heads and then following the `previous` links rather than filtering the whole log
D: could seperate out ...


Matt: what is your status on mentions?
D: could be something I could look at next 

Piet: with Flume, are there any easy wins for refactoring with flume?
EV: are we ready to push flume to master?
D: we're figuring out if it's ready. Makinging it mergeable
Mix: hows the migration looking ? preserving timestamps
  - how about finding fresh migration cases ?3

## Git flow

(Somewhat consensus on moving to git-ssb even though it lacks some key features that GitHub has)

ev : delete your github, why not?

## to work on next?

erryone make a tech tree


## gatherings

- ev : didn't see any times
- cel : implemented it in foo

cel - the message has the info about the timezone of the person who published the about message
piet - would like to publish about messages about location
D - are you aware of the JS offset in time?


## scuttlebot.io

digital ocean
byps

- load-balance across pubs at the dns-level using dnssb
- to help, run git-ssb-web and ssb-viewer plugins on your pub, and keep your pub running, then @cel will reverse proxy to you
- @matt is starting a server in the suburbs


## git-ssb

common api?
common routes? common link format (links to diffs, particular files etc)


---

ACTION 
- D : test coverage for migration (flume)
- ALL : make a tech tree, post it in #ssbc
- MM : start a server in your bedroom
- Find a better timezone for ssb call
- MX : start routing conversation
- MX : write up desired git-ssb api
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev dug was seeing flumeview-reduce@1.0.4 & ssb-friends@2.0.1 ``` ─────────────────
@ev in #patchwork-help
Re: %JypXftZbj

%patchfoo clones for me now! w00t.

@ev in #patchwork-help
Re: %JypXftZbj

@kas ah, ok. Gotcha.

@ev in #patchwork-help
Re: %JypXftZbj

@kas Well, I'm sure @cel can handle anything git-script related better than all of us. He fixed %minbay for me, when that was missing blobs.

@ev in #patchwork-help
Re: %JypXftZbj

I'm also unable to get the last blob on %patchfoo right now. Perhaps we need to wait for @cel to come back online?

@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev dug the js embed only includes `/static/base.css`, which is unchanged. the fanc
@ev
Re: %E341esJjO

I should mention that upgrading %sdash to the latest %ssb-viewer will break things too, as it depends on %ssb-viewer's embedded render.

@ev created an issue
@ev dug Mexico is pretty amazing. Let me know next time your are on the pacific sid
@ev in #boats
Re: %xgcheqymu

I'd love to hear more about sailing in Mexico, but having been in and out of Mexico for the past 6 years I know it's sometimes not a great idea to share too much for security reasons.

@gb and I are back in Fayetteville, NC right now, but we were in D.F. from May 2016 to Feb 2017.

@ev
Re: %wcPLp/Ck6

Source: John Perry Barlow

@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev dug > That's really scary. You don't have any laws or regulations that prohibit
@ev
Re: %4XOllO6le

Don't forget to invite @cryptix and @gb who are also in the ssbc.

@ev
Re: %4XOllO6le

I'm not working on Thursday, so I think I can make this. It's 6pm EST on June 1, right? I'm not rendering these message types in %minbay yet.

@ev dug > _I know it's hard but I think we should work in something where people co
@ev in #humanity
Re: %9qYDGHhJW

That rug really ties the room together. It's a good contrast to the fence algae. Wait, is there carpet under that rug?

@ev in #cooking-channel
Re: %pwCSHpUW1

@dominic Have you ever made Garlic Naan? It's bread, but you can cook it on a pan. It's just flour, yeast, garlic, water, and some kind of oil or butter. Roll it out into a triangle pancake, oil your pan, and cook it until it's done all of the way through.

@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev dug headings in papyrus, body in comic sans
@ev in #patchfoo
Re: %tM9v6GzI+

This is very cool, and I second being able to use this message type as a library, so I can bring this into the %minbase. No need to re-write in obs, async functions are cool enough for me.

@ev
Re: %BC5kpkVtA

Fayettenam update May 29th 2017

I haven't had an opportunity to update the network on my personal life in awhile, so I thought I'd write a little bit about where @gb and I have been and what we've been up to.

Two weeks ago our living situation changed abruptly when @gb's grandfather passed away and then her grandmother let us know the same day (by changing the locks without warning) that we no longer welcome at her house or to continue to use the car [@gb]'s grandfather loaned us to get to and from work. @gb wrote about what happened on here site here and here. I'm not related to these folks, so I think it's better if you get the full story from her.

Needless to say, ending up homeless and carless in Fayetteville unexpectedly was kind of a stressful thing. The good news is we both have restaurant jobs, so we were able to check into a weekly hotel with decent rates. It's a little more expensive than an apartment would be, but the trade off is flexibility and all utilities included except for Internet which is an extra $10 a week. We could leave at any time, but I think staying in Fayetteville and keeping our jobs is the wise thing to do right now.

Now we take the bus and/or walk to and from work, which is what I'm more comfortable with anyway. I hate cars. Not having a car in Fayetteville is kind of weird, but I've spent the majority of my life in big cities (NYC, Chicago, SF, Mexico City) so I'm much more comfortable using public transportation and walking.

Since the stress of two weeks ago is subsiding, I'm beginning to be able to refocus on working on projects that I care about -- such as maintaining my website, and working on %minbay. A few days ago I refactored %minbay into %minbase -- which should give people a stable base on which to build ssb lite clients.

Here's a photo of @gb and Mallory the Machete last night at Mac's:

gbandmachete.jpg

@ev in #crypto
Re: %fUnNS1/DH

@kas so there's no application at localhost:3013?

Try running npm run build. That'll generate the index.html file.

@ev in #crypto
Re: %fUnNS1/DH

@kas What's the invite code that %minbay is giving you?

@ev in #crypto
Re: %fUnNS1/DH

@kas in %minbay or %minbase just

git pull origin master
rm -rf node_modules
yarn

This'll update your yarn.lock file and you'll see how fast the install is now.

scuttlebot still isn't installing using npm, so use yarn for now? npm still isn't able to install scuttlebot#flume from a git repo for unknown reasons.

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev followed @elektron
@ev in #crypto
Re: %fUnNS1/DH

%minbase supports chloride@2.2.7 out of the box. sodium-native is a much faster install, yay!

@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %p2nw1/07g

@dominic I'm torn on what the proportional response is here, from a code perspective.

I, personally, am an advocate of resolving conflicts without blocking people. I think hearing people out when they have issues is the best way to deal with conflicts. I'm probably not going to block anyone who's arguing with me for whatever reason. I'm also not going to block trolls. I've slain the best of trolls over the years by communicating with them until the issue is over, or they got bored and wandered away.

However, we will have to deal with spammers and illegal content and I think block/wipe is the only way to handle content that I cannot have on my machine for whatever reason.

I'm torn on whether or not block and/or mute should be public or private right now. On the one hand, I see the reasoning for keeping it private (to avoid escalating conflicts). However, I personally would want to know if I have been blocked. I'd also like to personally let other people know that they have been blocked, so they can know they've done something wrong and perhaps self-reflect about what that might have been.

If Alice has blocked Bob, and Bob doesn't know about it, how much speculation will go on about whether or not Alice has blocked Bob? If Alice publicly blocks Bob, how mad will Bob be that he's been blocked, and what will he do about it?

Also, how does Bob petition Alice to release her block?

Anyway, it's a messy political issue, and I'm not sure what the proportional response is right now.

@ev dug ![daytime-view.JPG](&PwAm8dcaDaIm6YTzRuGsa1QLuZnyAFmNopf1bu3poQI=.sha256)
@ev dug This is all ready now, the tests are passing, everything is installed via n
@ev sent a private message
@ev dug :+1: on blocking to also delete that feed, as @ev said.
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev dug ## less confusing names! I happened to look at the ruby bindings to nacl (
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %p2nw1/07g

In my mind it should work this way:

Follow: always replicate feed
Not following/Unfollow: replicate feed if within 2 hops of a followed feed
Mute: replicate feed if within 2 hops, but do not show feed in client
Block: do not replicate feed

I'm also unclear about whether or not block/mute should be written messages. Perhaps block could be public and mute could be private? They could still be written to the feed though, so we don't have to worry about saving block/mute state in the clients.

I'd go a little further and try to figure out a way to completely remove a feed from my db with block. For example, let's say I replicate something I do not want for whatever reason. I need to be able to block the feed and remove the feed from my db so that I am no longer responsible for that data on my machines.

@ev dug or, here is a simpler patch: ``` diff --git a/plugins/replicate/legacy.js b
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %LwAM2X9dd...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %+tyUthD1L...
@ev
{
  "type": "git-repo",
  "name": "minbase"
}
@ev pushed to %LwAM2X9dd...
@ev in #minbay
Re: %gW2wa3/NP

@nico this is flume acting up within minbay. @kas is getting this error too: %GZFTaVJ....

I'm unable to replicate this bug over here, not sure why.

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev dug It worked with `yarn`. Now I have to go about installing `scuttlebot`. I w
@ev sent a private message
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev in #minbay
Re: %gW2wa3/NP

@kas Yes, yarn recompiles sodium-prebuilt every time. That's the expected behavior, I think.

@ev in #flume
Re: %iX1dSUWQI

These are the relevant bits I think:

/home/kas/.local/share/micropub/node_modules/scuttlebot/plugins/replicate/legacy.js:368
replicate({id: sbot.id, sequence: toSend[sbot.id] || 0})
                                              ^

    TypeError: Cannot read property '@dBQlwh9Gtr3i5YMOGtIOKtGNVepeu+nyb6KGl1vtOcM=.ed25519' of undefined
    at fallback (/home/kas/.local/share/micropub/node_modules/scuttlebot/plugins/replicate/legacy.js:368:47)
    at EventEmitter.<anonymous> (/home/kas/.local/share/micropub/node_modules/scuttlebot/plugins/replicate/legacy.js:361:7)
    at emitTwo (events.js:111:20)
    at EventEmitter.emit (events.js:194:7)

I'm not getting this error. I asked @kas to regenerate this flume db, but that didn't help.

@ev followed @Nico
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev in #minbay
Re: %gW2wa3/NP

@nico The scuttlebot dependency isn't installed using git-ssb, it's installed with npm or yarn. I did do an experiment where I installed all of the dependencies using git-ssb, but that's out of date. I'll remove that script from the package.json, as it no longer works.

@ev in #minbay
Re: %gW2wa3/NP

@nico Yah, npm isn't handling the flume branch install. Maybe because tests are failing? yarn is able to handle the install though.

@akkartik had the same error: %nDD/Xeq...

Minbay is just the lite client, so you can use it with an existing scuttlebot install if you have ssb-ws, ssb-query, and ssb-links installed.

@ev dug okay, nearly all the tests are passing now, it's just those that depend on
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev dug > _How hard would it be to run_ [patchwork] _as a browser app instead of in
@ev dug > what is price of using Facebook? your soul
@ev sent a private message
@ev in #patchcore
Re: %XeFGcZ9kh

@kodo @johnny would you guys be up for preparing a pull request on one of the clients that illustrates how this proposal for separate fork and reply buttons would work and how the threads should display?

It seems that it'd work similar to nested replies that we're used to on say Reddit or HN, and I'm down for that. If you want to use %minbay as your use-case, go for it. Right now the display is not good for forked replies, on my client at least. There's no way to trace messages back to their root.

@ev
Re: %nDD/XeqDk

@kas Fixed in minbay@1.4.2. The port wasn't correct everywhere in serve.js

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev in #patchcore
Re: %XeFGcZ9kh

@dominic wasn't me who made a fork button. I think @bobhaugen used to fork threads manually though.

I'm not against forked threads, but reply shouldn't fork a thread in my opinion.

@ev
Re: %nDD/XeqDk

yup, yarn. I've been using yarn a lot more recently. It even made it into the core Arch Linux repositories!

But that doesn't explain why npm isn't doing it's job. Perhaps it's because scuttlebot#flume isn't passing tests yet?

Anyway, I'm sure there will be other difficulties as I just hacked this client together today. If you need any assistance getting the lite client setup going, see the %minbay docs for a few more details: http://github.com/evbogue/minbay

%micropub is just %minbay with a different stylesheet and a handful of pre-loaded %originbay hypertabs.

@ev
Re: %nDD/XeqDk

The relevant npm instructions appear to be here: https://docs.npmjs.com/files/package.json#git-urls-as-dependencies -- but just don't seem to work with scuttlebot#flume.

Anyway, yarn works.

@ev
Re: %nDD/XeqDk

@akkartik Yah, that's the error I've been getting too.

I am installing scuttlebot in the node_modules folder, because I'm shipping scuttlebot with minbay. However, npm doesn't seem to be handling the install of the scuttlebot@flume branch that I'm asking it to clone off github in the package.json file located in the minbay repo.

"scuttlebot": "github:ssbc/scuttlebot#flume",

This'll be a moot point once flume gets merged into master, but for now yarn seems to be able to handle the install where npm fails. If anyone knows what I'm doing wrong, feel free to weigh in. The failing package.json file is located here: https://github.com/evbogue/minbay/blob/master/package.json

@ev pushed to %LwAM2X9dd...
@ev
Re: %nDD/XeqDk

I put it on Github too, just in case: https://github.com/evbogue/micropub

@ev
Re: %nDD/XeqDk

@akkartik Yup, %git-ssb sudo npm install -g git-ssb

@ev
Re: %nDD/XeqDk

Ok, bed for me. Here's how %micropub looks now:

2017-05-23-204737_1366x768_scrot.png

To use:

git clone ssb://%LwAM2X9dd/y/ilB/YQ93X3zu8Ket1BDEqmZf0EaVrv0=.sha256 micropub
cd micropub
npm install
npm start

I've been having trouble with npm lately, so if it doesn't work try yarn.

Micropub uses the lite client in your browser, so you'll need to move your key into the browser if you haven't done that already. Type 'Your Key' into the command bar and hit return to bring up the import/export dialog, since it's hidden right now.

@ev pushed to %LwAM2X9dd...
@ev pushed to %LwAM2X9dd...
@ev pushed to %LwAM2X9dd...
@ev
{
  "type": "git-repo",
  "name": "micropub"
}
@ev
Re: %nRcz4Hf1W

@kodo Cool. Basically, we're both riffing on the original Tweetdeck. I like how they have a little space between the columns, I should do that too.

@ev
Re: %8L/hnQ6tu

@kodo Yup, i3. I haven't used Mastadon, so don't know how it looks. This is based on the Micropub/dark theme for Bay that I built last year.

Current screenshot:

2017-05-23-192910_1366x768_scrot.png

I have some overflow issues I'm trying to deal with, and then should be ready to roll out!

@ev
Re: %8L/hnQ6tu

@gb I'm getting there... kind of

2017-05-23-182533_1366x768_scrot.png

@ev dug hey hey! I got locked out for a while there :)
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev dug >Shall we call it Micropub again? Let's.
@ev
Re: %8L/hnQ6tu

@gb only took 19 seconds to get that. hurray for %ssb-ebt!

Ok, I'll remake a client similar to that screenshot for you. Shall we call it Micropub again?

@ev
Re: %G9DjcM2jN

hey @akkartik. Welcome back to ssb!

@ev dug Some people felt the lack of line comments, etc was making them less produc
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev dug i think people tend to use the easy/convenient thing that they are most fam
@ev
Re: %z3Hs1Ubwy

A lot of the development discussion seems to have drifted back to github, I'm not sure why.

I'm confident the tools will improve if we use them more often, instead of falling back on old habits and centralization.

I try to use git-ssb as my primary code collaboration tool.

@ev in #counterantidisintermediationism
Re: %N1/K6vyxj

Is the author of this article on ssb?

@ev in #flume
Re: %hKY5uHiyP

^ makes sense to me.

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev dug Secure Scuttlebutt crosses The Atlantic ... in a published article! https
@ev dug Sew on the coaming and it's all together minus the coating and deck rigging
@ev dug ## out of order messages I had a simple idea of how to implement out-of-or
@ev in #flume
Re: %hKY5uHiyP

@dominic I read this thread, but I'm still not clear on what the change is. Is the change you're making turning 'unfollow' into 'block'?

While I'm all for being able to block people, and also interested in a way to remove specific feeds from my database, I think that unfollow should operate the way it has since the beginning: putting people you unfollow an additional 'hop' away from your node. Once people are three hops out, they no longer replicate.

@ev
Re: %EAH+KcYMI

@dominic ok, checking out scuttlebot@flume

@ev
Re: %Q0RQsjdOn

hey @xj9. Welcome to sbot!

@ev

The only error I'm still getting on scttlebot@_flume is still this:

/home/ev/minbay/node_modules/scuttlebot/node_modules/pull-next/index.js:17
      stream(null, function (err, data) {
      ^

TypeError: stream is not a function
    at Immediate.more (/home/ev/minbay/node_modules/scuttlebot/node_modules/pull-next/index.js:17:7)
    at runCallback (timers.js:672:20)
    at tryOnImmediate (timers.js:645:5)
    at processImmediate [as _immediateCallback] (timers.js:617:5)
error Command failed with exit code 1.

Does anyone else see this?

cc: @dominic @cel

@ev in #patchwork
Re: %hBben4J4Y

I prefer patchbay@6. Really, patchbay@6.1.3

If anyone wants to try it...

git clone https://github.com/ssbc/patchbay.git
git checkout e3a918ef0b3864578f624ca14e12fe1cf0079b3a

Both electron and the lite client work at that point in development. Plus, as @dominic mentioned, the client is a lot lighter.

@ev in #flume
Re: %TsWccAQzU

I've never seen this error, but I'm happy it's fixed!

@ev dug ## message order Although, it's not vital that any two clients show the me
@ev dug Update schema docs to allow for messages with multiple branch values This
@ev dug I don't have anything against making it hard for google to index the scuttl
@ev
Re: %3lc5QT0SH

For some reason %minbay is only correctly installing node modules with yarn right now, so I figured I'd commit the yarn.lock file.

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev sent a private message
@ev dug ![1be45038c55ada4354156accb5a7672a.jpg](&lqmhXVDC7RVQwbsR4Kw21CJ05Lhipbkuz4
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev dug Disagree buttons, if reddit is of any indication, seem to have a list of un
@ev in #patchfoo
Re: %AeRH0azez

@kas You can merge my style branch with...

git pull origin ev-styles

I want to fix the overflow issue in the smaller-sized messages before @cel merges.

Feel free to tweak the styles to your liking, %patchfoo is easily themeable, all you gotta do is edit the style.css file!

@ev
Re: %N5s8NRCJX

yah, opening thousands of elements seems to be a bug to me. This didn't happen in the original/old pull-scroll.

The original pull-scroll was magic, it's easy to mess up magic.

@ev
Re: %iFCnptcvu

@gb just started reading this piece to me, and I said "oh! you wrote a piece about our vacay!"

Here's the piece on her website: http://gwenbell.com/vacay/

@ev
Re: %N5s8NRCJX

%minbay is not trashing my memory, fyi.

@ev
Re: %N5s8NRCJX

@andrestaltz I think it's something in pull-scroll, but haven't been able to isolate. I'm using a pull-scroll fork in %minbay that's kind of the old version with a larger post buffer.

I tried updating pull-scroll and everything slowed way down, so I figured I should probably not use the current version if the old version worked better.

But as far as what is going wrong? No idea.

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev
Re: %C7hAXW+l+

I use yarn about 80% of the time right now.

I've also noticed pnpm is trying to be another alternative to npm, but I haven't had as much success with getting it pnpm to work as consistently as yarn does.

The main reason I got into yarn is I want to find a way to do offline-first installs of ssb software.

@ev dug Now with pretty vote display! ![Votes](&h+vfWUvHQcXIq3jBwlYbmJPfex+Dd4OrY0
@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %zmV/6NIIt

@howard klein @kodo. True!

The first time I tried an isolated network, I didn't change the key. However, if you don't it'll eventually the pubs will find a way to sync on you -- unless you keep the whole network offline and never get on wifi with anyone who's running the main network. For example, Ramnode gives you local area networking, so the pubs just sync no matter what.

Changing the key is a little harder than I'd like right now -- you gotta do it in a few places. But it'll keep you from syncing between networks.

The downside is that the networks don't have any overlap, so the Decent folks don't see the main network. Thus, there's a lot less activity over there.

@ev dug ![anthroponics.jpg](&+MKpnApxS7wTCHUdrqQi+hRMIzRhPalgrIpBNqTHOQM=.sha256)
@ev dug >How do I age urine? I am hoping it involves oak casks
@ev dug [@cel](@f/6sQ6d2CMxRUhLpspgGIulDxDCwYD7DzFzPNr7u5AU=.ed25519) Actually, tha
@ev
Re: %hdax7FStq

Fixed in %KA2aMoE.... Thanks @cel!

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev sent a private message
@ev dug i recommend using `{link: blobId, type: 'image/...', size: ...}`. setting `
@ev

What is the standard schema for about images?

@cel and I have been talking about this behind the scenes, because we have clients that are doing two different versions...

As far as I can tell, original Patchwork, %originbay, %minbay use:

image: {link: blobUrl}

and one of the newer clients %patchbay or %patchcore is using

image: blobUrl

It's easy to change which schema we're using in the clients, the question is: which one do we want to use across all of the ssb clients?

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %C1r2UW2zj

@dominic

my proposal is errors have a small set of keys say, network, crypto, api, fs (suggestions welcome) and then those have properties which are a single camel cased string which identifies the particular error. This would be intended as machine readable, so no changing this once you have made the error.

Seems good to me.

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %C1r2UW2zj

Seems to be a bikeshed to me. Just do it the way you want to @dominic.

@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %C7hAXW+l+

We should have written ssb in Haskell.

@ev
Re: %iO8kGHude

@kas I direct messaged you an invite.

@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %iO8kGHude

@kas %decent uses the .decent folder. Obviously that comment is wrong, but isn't going to change anything. Feel free to fix, and send a merge request!

Do you need a pub invite for decent?

@ev
Re: %ElnFKA8X0

...because I keep referencing Patchbay from this era while coding for the future.

@ev pushed to %iy5yXLFfm...
@ev
{
  "type": "git-repo",
  "name": "originbay"
}
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %rbBMuw83y

@kas Yup, that should work.

@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %rbBMuw83y

@kas the db isn't linked to your secret.

Where's the weight in your .ssb folder, blobs? You can delete blobs if you want, it'll regenerate on demand.

@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) gonna get ebt
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %shv9Si/sg

@dominic how far are we from websbot?

@ev in #boats
Re: %qC3lv33Oz

^ the most practical use of ssb to date. I hope you get your kayak back @robin.paulson!

@ev sent a private message
@ev changed something in about
@ev in #linux
Re: %brn9UsER4

@jer If you change the network key for your ssb application, you won't have to worry about it accidentally syncing with the main network.

@ev
Re: %4XC0w3UaP

@Tim Cowlishaw Welcome.

@ev
Re: %X830tkror

But yah, I've smoked more cigarettes than Facebooks in the past 10 years.

@ev
Re: %X830tkror

@ezdiy @kodo. You seem real smart, but who are you guys?

@ev
Re: %X830tkror

@dominic You've built something better than Facebook, why bother with being present on it?

@ev
Re: %X830tkror

@dominic Have you deleted your account?

@ev dug I quit facebook by weaning my self off it. I just muted all my friends. Thi
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %13XjAw8SC

@therealklanni sbot is already compatible with cjdns.

@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %NA5eiLhFa

@kodo As far as I know, the goal is to get a full client/server stack running in the browser. That'd still work in Electron, because Electron is just Chrome wired into Node.

There's no reason why we can't have Electron and lite clients, diversity is better. I just prefer lite, because I think simple is better.

@ev
Re: %dwRzd3YvQ

@dominic with Electron or lite?

@ev dug One of things that I really like about ssb is it's easy to necro a post fro
@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %iFCnptcvu

@dangerousbeans Good question, I don't know! I'll think about how to best create a Scuttlegate during my shift tonight. If anyone has ideas, feel free to weigh in.

@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) how could I me
@ev sent a private message
@ev in #patchbay
Re: %N1CMUaYZq

w00t!

@ev in #cooperative
Re: %qoNNiitlQ

I remember when we where nearing 100 people having installed patchwork, talking about what we needed to get to 1000. We are there now, time to talk about what we need to get to 10k - @dominic

I'll speculate that getting the entire ssb stack running in a browser would get us to 10,000 or a million right quick. Everyone has a browser.

@ev dug Really interesting story. Thanks for the update!
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev
Re: %iFCnptcvu

Ok, I said to @kodo I would write a bit about why %decent exists and how it came into being.

In brief, %decent is a scuttlebot alt-net with %minbay as a client.

The network key is EVRctE2Iv8GrO/BpQCF34e2FMPsDJot9x0j846LjVtc=.

From May 2016 until February 2016 @gb lived in Mexico City and coded full-time. We'd saved up enough money working at the restaurant in Fayetteville, so said 'why not move to Mexico City where the cost of living is cheaper and pour all of our energy into making ssb better?'

I would have liked to find a tech job or find some way to make money on the Internet again in order to stay in Mexico City indefinitely, however that's not the way the world works right now so now we're back in Fayetteville, NC serving brews at the restaurant again.

Earlier this year things got a little tense within the #ssbc because of "the mcss argument". @gb told me to take a break, so I did. I shut down scuttlebot for a week and took a vacation.

I won't rehash the argument too much, because we're all cool now. Basically some developers in the #ssbc thought it was a good idea to code %patchbay styles in mcss. I'm still in the 'keep it simple and extensible' camp and was arguing that we stay with straight up css in %patchbay.

I'd already forked %patchbay into %minbay back in December 2016, before mcss was introduced. I originally started minbay as an experiment to see how simple I could make %patchbay and I just kept using it as my primary client. Minbay doesn't support "heavy" electron, instead relying on the lite client as it's primary way of communicating with ssb-server/scuttlebot. This means you can use %minbay on a remote server, while keeping your public/private key in local storage.

Decent came about during my 'vacation'. I don't use any centralized social networks, so I got bored during my vacation --between sipping Victoria's at the local pub in central Mexico City. Since I wasn't allowing myself to go back on the main network, I thought 'why not change the scuttlebot network key?' and I started a new network. During that week, I got more familiar with the guts of scuttlebot, as I worked towards changing the network key across the entire application.

All in all, I think of %decent as an interesting experiment. I still run the network, but it's much smaller than the main ssb network for obvious reasons. Right now, Decent is the only other way (besides the main ssb network) to get in touch with me via http://evbogue.com/, as I don't use email anymore.

Questions? Comments? Leave them on this thread!

@ev dug If the UI is made of well-structured HTML, and the structure doesn't change
@ev dug i would like to have a theme loader where we pick themes from the network -
@ev followed @黑客
@ev in #minbay
Re: %8v5x2zBoo

@kodo @kodo [minbay].

I think what you're saying is %minbay is flowing into the right side of your screen on smaller mobile devices.

Def a bug, feel free to fix and do a pull request. I'll take a look when I have time next week. Open an issue with git-ssb-web!

@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) Thanks! Soun
@ev in #decent
Re: %SnOvQd774

@kodo I've been having some issues with avatar-edit in decent and minbay. They used to work, now they don't anymore. I suspect something changed upstream in a module, but I can't confirm or deny that.

I'm not sure what is going wrong, but haven't figured it out yet. If you figure it out, feel free to do a pull request!

@ev
Re: %iFCnptcvu

@kodo Good question. There isn't one reason why %decent exists. I'll think about why/how on my shift tonight and try to get you a decent explanation on this thread in the future.

@ev in #minbay
Re: %8v5x2zBoo

What @cel said.

And I'm going to try to get %minbay upgraded to _flume and %epidemic-broadcast-trees as soon as possible now that they seem semi-stable.

@ev in #minbay
Re: %8v5x2zBoo

@kodo It's because ssb-ws is being loaded twice. Comment out line 52 in minbay/sbot.js to stop loading global plugins when you start %minbay

@ev
Re: %O1jRo1uzC

@emile I stopped using email on March 29th: http://evbogue.com/nomoreemail/

@ev in #patchlite
Re: %cP3wngOZB

@kodo They used to be in the same repo, but as far as I can tell some Electron-specific stuff got added to %patchbay.

I also noticed %patchlite using a lot of memory. My gut is something is going wrong with a newer version of pull-scroll because I don't have this issue with %minbay, which uses a forked older version of pull-scroll in-house because I decided to fix a bug in a different direction.

@ev in #patchfoo
Re: %pq7V6tGE3

@cel There are still some bugs (the stream expands horizontally for some reason when messages have too much width), so I wouldn't merge just yet.

I'm still a little unsure about the best way to handle style picking with ssb clients. I want to figure out a way to easily theme things without requiring forks -- but we totally failed to do that in the %patchbay world. It seems to be the same problem we faced with the original patchbay theme loader, and later with the mcss debate.

Style is something everyone will have an opinion on, how do we handle infinite opinions well?

@ev in #minbay
Re: %cO2/eTbHT

@qbit It can't read your local machine to get your identity, because the lite client is running in the browser. However you can import it, click on the :key: button next to Edit your profile and import your key. Leave the localStorage.remote the same though.

@ev created an issue
@ev dug # Scuttlebutt I've been playing with scuttlebutt, a secure decentralized s
@ev dug @ev it's nice to enjoy your good style choices again. now i'm thinking if i
@ev in #minbay
Re: %cO2/eTbHT

@kas

Minbay is just an html file, because it's an expression of the %patchbay lite client.

Navigate to where the file is, and use it with any version of scuttlebot. Make sure you have ssb-ws, ssb-links, and ssb-query installed.

The version of scuttlebot that ships with minbay loads these plugins automatically, so keep in mind that they can also conflict if you already have them installed.

If you see a red block at the bottom of the screen, minbay is not connecting to sbot.

Next you need a lite client invite into scuttlebot. You can generate one using node sbot invite.create --modern on your command line.

@ev in #minbay
Re: %cO2/eTbHT

@kas Optional, but as you can see I wasn't consistent in that file. Feel free to clean up if you want!

@ev in #patchfoo
Re: %PlwLK9ttY

I pushed my tiny style changes to a %patchfoo branch: %pq7V6tG..., in case anyone wants to try them out.

@ev pushed to %YAg1hicat...
@ev
Re: %+jBVNrnnL

@cel Thanks for your help fixing this error, fixed in this commit on %minbay

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev in #patchfoo

I played around with the #patchfoo styles a little bit, the other night while %minbay was broken.

2017-04-28-105046_1366x768_scrot.png

@ev
Re: %+p1acOIy7

All we need to do is rediscover the lost art of the %patchbay lite client.

@ev dug new from patchfoo labs: **advanced search**: search by author, text, and/o
@ev dug Anyone around here experiment with [cjdns / hyperboria](https://hyperboria
@ev dug Greystone Brewing — Fredericton NB. Modelling by Molly ![a.JPG](&CW19BN/C
@ev
Re: %+jBVNrnnL

@cel Worked!

I ended up changing the code to:

    for(var k in CACHE) {
      if (CACHE[k].content.vote != null) {
        if(CACHE[k].content.type == 'vote' &&
        (CACHE[k].content.vote == msg.key ||
        CACHE[k].content.vote.link == msg.key
        ))
        votes.push({source: CACHE[k].author, dest: k, rel: 'vote'})
      }
    }
@ev in #git
Re: %39rFdr+0F

@kodo + @clacke

I think it's crazy that ssb has been around for more than a year.

@ev unfollowed @Dominic_phone_ff
@ev
TypeError: Cannot read property 'link' of undefined
at exports.message_meta (file:///home/ev/minbay/build/index.html:2155:30)
at file:///home/ev/minbay/build/index.html:5197:19
at Array.map (native)
at Object.message_meta (file:///home/ev/minbay/build/index.html:5196:19)
at file:///home/ev/minbay/build/index.html:2511:39
at file:///home/ev/minbay/build/index.html:5187:30
at add (file:///home/ev/minbay/build/index.html:22434:15)
at file:///home/ev/minbay/build/index.html:22461:43
at file:///home/ev/minbay/build/index.html:10862:37
at file:///home/ev/minbay/build/index.html:11307:13

I've been getting this error in %minbay for the past hour or so, and haven't quite been able to track it down. Has anyone seen this before anywhere else?

I haven't changed anything in the minbay codebase, so I'm kind of confused as to why I'm suddenly getting errors.

I tried toasting the links and query folders, but that didn't help.

Right now, posting from Patchfoo.

@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) [@mixmix](@ye+
@ev in #git
Re: %39rFdr+0F

I noticed that @robin.paulson replied to this thread from a year ago.

"No doubt git-ssb will make Gogs obsolete in less than two weeks."

Turned out to be true, I no longer use Gogs.

@ev
Re: %kjXk8TrXd

Works! w00t! Thanks @cel

git clone  ssb://%UTn/AoIVVF/4yKI7PKIWrHeWb1q7sTMCWVyYY1XTiCk=.sha256 minbay
Cloning into 'minbay'...
error loading sodium bindings: Cannot find module 'sodium-prebuilt/build/Release/sodium' falling back to javascript version.
Receiving objects: 100% (2971/2971), 3.16 MiB | 0 bytes/s, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (1311/1311), done.
@ev dug @ev ok cool, i got the git objects from the repo on github and used the com
@ev
Re: %kjXk8TrXd

@cel this is a little over my head, but I'll give it a try when I think I know what I'm doing. Perhaps tomorrow? Let me see if I can figure it out.

If you feel confident that you know what you're doing, the git objects are also available off github. http://github.com/evbogue/minbay/

@ev dug I'm moving to a new place and we don't have wifi here, yet. That's a perfec
@ev
Re: %kjXk8TrXd

@cel Here's what I'm seeing:

Still waiting for blobs: &03AOrZgnzamMeLRlRctl8qvAQGi/+7QbIP9E4j75r48=.sha256 &59Dd+qx5znGY4F25YEoaucyfHnP7YtXpwQ8T2zsbQ4g=.sha256

I'm not sure why I wouldn't already have these blobs on my computer, I did the commit a month ago on the same computer and haven't touched my local blob database. Maybe a crash or unexpected shutdown?

I delete the blob database on my VPS all of the time though.

Perhaps the solution here is to start a new git-ssb repo and letting the older one go?

@ev followed @creationix
@ev dug Last night I camped in the woods near my house with most the kids (wife kep
@ev dug i added some code to show ids of blobs being fetched, including which ones
@ev
Re: %kjXk8TrXd

I tried this, but I think I need to know the id of the blobs that git-ssb cannot find. How do I get git-ssb to tell me the id of the blobs it doesn't have? Right now the interface just hangs at 80/82, but doesn't display which blobs it is looking for.

@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev
Re: %y6+fQaWw3

@arj Got it working! This is awesome, but might be crashing your server.

@ev

@cel I'm having issues finding two blobs to clone down %minbay off ssb. They don't seem to exist on the network anymore.

Is there any way to re-push the blobs to the network?

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev
Re: %y6+fQaWw3

I tried this, but the server seemed to be down at the time.

@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) I'll definitel
@ev
Re: %1Mxa7QlZu

hey @mixmix. Thanks for the mention of Decent in this post! I'm also trying to maintain work/life balance with the restaurant job and also putting some effort into development.

Who is this post about though? @matt @mixmix or @dominic?

Let us in the community know how we can help this person out with load balancing requests and dev work. Now that there are so many new people in the community, perhaps we can find new ways to pitch in in tiny ways to help folks who are putting in a lot of effort.

@ev

@dominic Would you be up for writing a brief explanation of the difference between the original %scuttlebot gossip code and %epidemic-broadcast-trees?

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev
Re: %aawaVQApz

@noffle Starboard will print some recent posts to your terminal, but that's about it.

@ev in #patchwork
Re: %AECkKTNhJ

@jeremy %minbay bundles ssb-ws, so it's running twice at port 8989. You'll need to disable one of them.

I wonder if there's a way to ignore the plugin if it's already installed?

I don't know what the manifest error is, I'm not sure that's related to %minbay

@ev followed @Puzz
@ev in #patchwork
Re: %AECkKTNhJ

@jeremy Would you be up for trying %minbay and weighing in on the UX experience on that client? It's another depject-based sbot client, but doesn't support Electron. http://github.com/evbogue/minbay/

@ev in #new-people
Re: %8vYYRG2G1

@Jeremy Dormitzer Nice. Arch is awesome.

@ev dug we actually started out with a binary format, this was a long time ago, and
@ev followed @millette
@ev dug if multiple pub operators run ssb-viewer, one can reverse proxy to multiple
@ev dug hey, this is [@dinosaur](@6ilZq3kN0F+dXFHAPjAwMm87JEb/VdB+LC9eIMW3sa0=.ed25
@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev dug Just pushed `ssbvan` to %Lv1t04W0ojtbUBta2qocg1vIkd/udMAu4FCL0cHOBzA=.sha25
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev followed @CrowderSoup
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %QjWoR2OC1

Have you considered taking a stab at making your own scuttlebot client @james?

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %lzWl/ysgN

Could %patchfoo be turned into a public gateway? Just disable input similar to %git-ssb-web. cc: @cel

@ev

Did someone arbitrarily change the schema for avatar images in %patchcore? I've noticed avatars from newer clients aren't rendering in %minbay anymore.

@ev followed @gabe.
@ev dug Got access to a public wifi for a couple of min :) First sync in a couple o
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %QjWoR2OC1

Very cool. Thanks for fixing this @dinosaur and @ezdiy. I have a little time today between shifts, so I'll take a look at how dev is going in the patchcore/patchlite world.

@ev dug @cel with this it also renders the self-description body! :) ![foo-descr.pn
@ev followed @Sybil
@ev in #scuttlebutt
Re: %QjWoR2OC1

Here's a relevant discussion we had four months ago about Electron.

@ev followed @qbit
@ev followed @Mile Stone
@ev
Re: %BIn9kv4Fq

and don't forget %patchfoo.

@ev
Re: %BIn9kv4Fq

%minbay doesn't use Electron.

@ev followed @nick novitski
@ev followed @kas
@ev followed @DiamondBrain
@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %ItbVV+gOW

Let me know when %epidemic-broadcast-trees is ready to test, and how to do so. I'll give it a spin.

@ev dug :wave:
@ev dug wb gb & ev
@ev dug We are now the "offgrid social network", as officially as you can be in the
@ev
Re: %X+6eMgtIN

'bout time.

@ev dug it exploded
@ev dug From https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/grid-book The Grid Book, by Hannah B H
@ev
Re: %n7qzb4bRC

2017-04-07-225154_1366x768_scrot.png

@ev dug Invite notes I realized I've generated and given away various invite codes
@ev
Re: %HQOxl6fvz

@cel I've noticed this issue with git-ssb as well. The 'cancel and try again' solution seems to help, as long as I have an Internet connection. I agree, it seems as if there's a bug in the call back.

@ev followed @andrestaltz
@ev

https://celehner.com/ssbc/stats/daily.html

@ev dug First time using SSB. While it's at the top of Hacker News, somewhat embarr
@ev
Re: %U2cwWPqlv

@myf Yup. Good article @andrestaltz! Amazing selfie @dominic!

@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %7dM2WU45j

I find it hard to compare gossiped cyphernets with federated social networks.

@ev sent a private message
@ev dug # Minimal Sbot Working on [%epidemic-broadcast-trees](%IEIxcO9gjjVszLLlhTR
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev
Re: %V68638B+Z

Got any screenshots yet?

@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev in #ssbc
Re: %b6nlgiAu3

Yah, the lite client is pretty useless if your device is offline. However, not syncing the entire database might be a benefit if the device has metered data.

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev

Got off work early, so I figured I'd spend some time catching up on what is going on in the scuttleverse.

What have I missed?

@ev dug I ascended the mast today, intent on replacing the masthead navigation ligh
@ev sent a private message
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev
Re: %bmjk1/VcR

@andrestaltz True! ssb works over cjdns.

@ev dug this
@ev dug mini pub messages. In [%patchfoo](%YAg1hicat+2GELjE2QJzDwlAWcx0ML+1sXEdsWw
@ev
Re: %BrgU4mNai

Tired of seeing

Error: read ECONNRESET
    at exports._errnoException (util.js:1028:11)
    at TCP.onread (net.js:572:26)
Error: read ECONNRESET
    at exports._errnoException (util.js:1028:11)
    at TCP.onread (net.js:572:26)
Error: read ECONNRESET
    at exports._errnoException (util.js:1028:11)
    at TCP.onread (net.js:572:26)
Error: read ECONNRESET
    at exports._errnoException (util.js:1028:11)
    at TCP.onread (net.js:572:26)
Error: read ECONNRESET
    at exports._errnoException (util.js:1028:11)
    at TCP.onread (net.js:572:26)
Error: read ECONNRESET
    at exports._errnoException (util.js:1028:11)
    at TCP.onread (net.js:572:26)
Error: read ECONNRESET
    at exports._errnoException (util.js:1028:11)
    at TCP.onread (net.js:572:26)
Error: read ECONNRESET
    at exports._errnoException (util.js:1028:11)
    at TCP.onread (net.js:572:26)
Error: read ECONNRESET
    at exports._errnoException (util.js:1028:11)
    at TCP.onread (net.js:572:26
@ev
Re: %BrgU4mNai

Still not merged. Is there a reason @cel's fix hasn't made it to master in %scuttlebot yet? cc @dominic

@ev

Fayettenam update

Hey y'all on the main network. I've been a little scarce around these parts, so I thought I'd let everyone know what is going on in @gb and @ev-ville.

On Feb 24th we left Mexico City for Laredo, TX via Transportes Del Norte. The bus trip was around 20 hours, four of which was standing still because a flatbed in front of us lost their cargo on the road. We spent a few days in Laredo at my dad's and step-mom's place, and then continued on via Greyhound to Houston, New Orleans, Atlanta, and finally arrived in Fayetteville. This leg of the journey was around 36 hours, I think. But it was all a blur by then.

Upon arriving in Fayetteville, @gb and I decided to drop by the restaurant we worked at, The Carolina Alehouse, on the same day we arrived. It turned out that a lot of people that we know are still working there. The general manager decided to hire us back on as servers, so we'll be serving cold beers and finding time to code in our spare time.

Anyway, that is all for now. I'm grateful to be able to find decent jobs so soon upon returning to the USA.

@ev
Re: %h2BdmSctW

For the record, I have not fixed this issue yet -- even though I claimed to have fixed it twice in commits.

@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev dug Replace lone genius with "BDFL" (Benevolent Dictator For Life), basically.
@ev dug You assumption is backwards; Moxie is the lone committee, and we are a thre
@ev dug Update: We settled on scuttle_float_fest as a name for now :) and try to m
@ev in #patchbay
Re: %29OR04Z2i

I'm not going to weigh in on this.

@ev
Re: %BrgU4mNai

@cel @dominic I've been a bit out of the loop, did this get merged?

@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) that's probabl
@ev sent a private message
@ev dug Thanks @ev. I'm still figuring out how to make this useful. Right now you
@ev in #anarchitecture
Re: %syZvcmdwT

@noffle I'm excited that you're hacking on this project. One of my life goals has been to move off of npm towards a distributed replacement.

@ev
Re: %BrgU4mNai

I am still seeing Error: unexpected end of parent stream a lot though... I thought that was fixed.

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev
Re: %BrgU4mNai

@cel It's updated now, it might have been because I was using yarn and perhaps it was reading from the lockfile?

@ev

Just did a fresh install of scuttlebot@9.4.4, and I don't think it quite got the packet-stream fixes. I think packet-stream needs a version bump in muxrpc? cc @cel @dominic

@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %ywGpmWWUk...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %ywGpmWWUk...
@ev

Every time I accidentally log into Github, I want to know who died.

@ev dug some more data and analysis of # bandwidth usage effects of changes to pac
@ev

I've made a habit of announcing the ssbc calls, but I'm not sure if I can make this week or next because of travel. If anyone else wants to announce, go for it!

@ev dug yay from patchwork-next!
@ev in #drawings
Re: %7JsktBbxY

@wakest I think @cel's recommendation is right.

Also make sure to run npm install inside the project folder, if you weren't doing that already. In the screenshot it shows you're running npm install sodium in your home directory, which isn't where you want to install it.

@ev dug [@wakest](@fknQDWIbEKmJx/JoNE4L4F51lAEjwEWvaTm0rkO3fVw=.ed25519) try `brew
@ev in #drawings
Re: %7JsktBbxY

@wakest nm, got the screenshot blob.

@ev in #drawings
Re: %7JsktBbxY

@wakest Can you paste the error you're seeing? It'll help us figure out what is wrong.

@ev dug # update to patchwork-next I've spent the last week working on porting [pa
@ev dug > Show connected/disconnected of all peers This makes a pub show when a pe
@ev
Re: %bh+OBwz9l

@dominic This is leadership material

@ev in #pub-help
Re: %XceX4uJTC

Here's 100 classic invites to evbogue.com

evbogue.com:8008:@J2VKbbf69rK38vXIRLOCwaZdEm+0vzv/LMeaxmJks3k=.ed25519~vereISEW6tU92MbWMgdaHqw2kllGpNkFwkoXgF+dw7Q="
@ev in #patchwork
Re: %CZtg7Riyx

Also, I shouldn't forget %patchfoo! Which is the simplest ssb client.

@ev in #patchwork
Re: %CZtg7Riyx

@wakest As far as I understand it Patchwork is no longer being worked on.

Have you tried %minbay or %patchbay?

Minbay is the same experience as %decent -- so you've used that interface before.

@ev
Re: %bh+OBwz9l

@xstt You're right to bring up that there's a lot more room for ssb folks to disagree, compared to when you're working on the kernel.

@ev
Re: %bh+OBwz9l

@ansuz I read this article when it was on HN last month, and couldn't find a mention of the vulnerability that the article said Linus was blocking from being fixed. What is the issue with the Linux kernel, and has it been fixed?

Regardless, I've always been a believer that strong leadership helps keep an open source project alive -- despite the disagreements that will appear from time to time.

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %SMqHQTSey

So far, less errors. :fireworks:

2017-02-16-183033_746x462_scrot.png

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %SMqHQTSey

@cel I'm testing this branch + the packet-stream merge requests right now.

@ev dug This, plus [packet-stream#7](https://github.com/ssbc/packet-stream/pull/7)
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev
Re: %M/llSEnyY

@bobhaugen Next time you ought to! I'm always up for talking about food.

@ev

I just read Shut up and get the work done – says Linus Torvalds - 15 Feb 2017

Relevant quotes:

"It's almost boring how well our process works," Torvalds said. "All the really stressful times for me have been about process. They haven't been about code. When code doesn't work, that can actually be exciting ... Process problems are a pain in the ass. You never, ever want to have process problems ... That's when people start getting really angry at each other."

"We've been doing this for 25 years and one of the constant issues we've had is people stepping on each other's toes," said Torvalds. "So for all of that history what we've done is organize the code, organize the flow of code, [and] organize our maintainership so the pain point – which is people disagreeing about a piece of code – basically goes away."

@ev
Re: %M/llSEnyY

@cel, you were in transit

Present: @ev @gb

@dominic didn't show, citing personal issues with me
@mixmix didn't show, citing retreat
@mikey didn't show, citing retreat
@matt didn't show, no reason given
@piet didn't show, no reason given
@cryptix didn't show, no reason given

@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev
Re: %Mwks0f3Uj

I added these two images to the Decent readme:

decent-nexus.jpg

decent-screenshot.png

@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev
Re: %M/llSEnyY

if @matt makes the call, I'm interested in talking about his Extract styles from depject proposal

@ev
Re: %M/llSEnyY

Topics on my mind for the call today:

  • What clients are being used?
  • Errors for specific clients?
  • Reaching more people with ssb?

Feel free to list topics below.

@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %M/llSEnyY

@dominic If you want me to skip the call so you can be on it, I can do that. ssb is your project.

I did answer you on human protocols. I said: "I can't say whether or not I want to adopt these communication styles at the present moment."

I don't have anything pressing to talk about on this call. I'm planning on doing the check-in and listening in on what is up for people.

@ev
Re: %M/llSEnyY

@bobhaugen Cool man. You can always listen too.

I forgot @piet though! cc: @piet

And I think @arj is in the ssbc too now right?

@ev

ssbc call!

@dominic @cel @mixmix @mikey @matt @gb @cryptix

everyone is welcome. @bobhaugen and @andrestaltz expressed interest in joining the call this week.

4pm Mexico City, Wed Feb 15
11pm Berlin, Wed Feb 15
11am Auckland/Wellington, Thu Feb 16

Install mumble, use push-to-talk, dial into celehner.com

List topics for discussion on this thread.

@ev in #communication
Re: %R9hSxBaeK

Rule book sounds kind of unattractive to a community that praise freedom and experimentation, or at least to me... - @xstt

:arrow_up: Yes. The reason that I get excited about ssb is because it allows a greater range of communication, as no one is afraid of being silenced because the man behind the curtain doesn't 'like' them.

Thanks @dominic for clarifying the way you engage, and @mixmix for clarifying how to do 'looping'.

I can't say whether or not I want to adopt these communication styles at the present moment. If I'm asked to try 'looping' on a future call, I'll be able to make an informed decision about whether or not I want to play.

@ev dug naming, a Hard Problem
@ev in #communication
Re: %R9hSxBaeK

@dominic I'd be up for using Agile or Scrum, if we follow the rule book.

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %/XjcoF7i4

@piet In response to my 'talking too much' on the call: the only issue we talked about on the call was the mcss/css issue -- an issue that I filed on %mixbay.

I think you did an excellent job as the facilitator making sure other voices were heard, and I respected your requests when you wanted to hear different perspectives. I also respect your decision to unfollow my feed id.

The reason I'm interested in ssb is because it is a distributed technology that allows communication without a central authority being able to ban users for their opinions or 'behaviors'.

@bobhaugen As far as I'm concerned this issue is resolved. Thanks for continuing to follow me. If you're ever interested in dropping in on the call, please feel free to do so. As far as I understand it, they are open to anyone who wants to attend. The next call is Wednesday at 4pm CST.

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %Mt0zu5kHh

@don You are correct, peers replicate over your local network even if you're not friends.

@ev dug This looks like an act of leadership. I'm more interested in a [@dominic](
@ev in #communication
Re: %R9hSxBaeK

Are you the leader of this project now @dominic? Because I support that.

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %/XjcoF7i4

@dominic See, I remember being asked to converse using an obscure communication 'tool' during the call, and when I refused being 'Enspiraled' for not wanting to cooperate with a rule book that I had not been let in on prior to the call.

No one has ever accused me of being passive about the projects that I care about, and I care about ssb because it enables people to communicate across the Internet without being squashed. If y'all don't want see my 'behavior' anymore, by all means unfollow me.

@ev sent a private message
@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %/XjcoF7i4

I said I was going to respond last night, but it got too late and the burgers were too good, so I decided to call it and go to sleep.

I'm happy to see this conversation is winding down.

History For those just tuning in, this conversation began with the css/mcss issue, leading to %mixbay and %minbay. We're working towards a common set of basic modules that can be used in both clients.

The conversation was restarted by @dominic on github, and was the topic for an hour ssbc call last Wednesday.

Current I'm happy to continue maintaining %minbay myself, which does not have embedded styles.

Responses

@mikey I do not agree that people should be banned from networks because other people disagree with their opinions.

@mixmix It's interesting that you bring up traumatic experiences. The only two I've ever had involved the use of NVC and other unvetted communication tools.

@dominic I am up for discussing clear rules for contributing to ssbc repos and call conduct. These will be useful as the network and org grows.

@ev dug The problem with "don't be a dick" is that it's pretty easy for one person'
@ev dug I'm screening The Big Lebowski at mine tonight. All welcome. cc [@piet](@U
@ev
Re: %4LijCYQM2

@piet This response is so great, and I understood every word of it. I'll weigh in longer after the shopping trip, but I want to say thank you for moderating during the last call, because you were cool-headed the whole time and we all benefited.

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %/XjcoF7i4

@mixmix I'm trying to grok this. I'll weigh in with a longer response after a shopping trip.

@ev dug I fucking love The Big Lebowski. It's actually my favourite movie. I must h
@ev
Re: %jgIPxZGPT

Are you sure you want to be down in the hole @kemitchell? Once you're down here you gotta dig yourself back out.

@ev
Re: %F+euwrXn/

Link! http://evbogue.com/fayettenam/

@ev dug Nice clarity. > Where it's breaking down is in the suggestion on the cal
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev dug i explored [writing reduces](%ueMfauBPVJTb34Q2IQ0XeunJY1iNZSpE0dXcI5jtTes=.
@ev dug Seems to be a lot of human element going on right here right now. I'm also
@ev dug Today I biked down to the lava flow and a car on highway 130 not far from M
@ev
Re: %jgIPxZGPT

@dominic Well, I see that you see that I'm in the hole.

Does @mixmix have an open an inclusive collaborative environment if he's banning people from joining the call? No. Was I out of line on the call? No. I stopped talking whenever @Piet brought up that I was talking over someone. To be clear, the only topic for discussion on the call was the issue that I wasn't depending on %mixbay. Y'all made the issue me for the whole, instead of bringing it back to the actual issue, which is mcss on the rug.

From my angle I see y'all as in the hole. If you guys keep bringing this up, I'm going to keep responding. You can't shut me down or make me flame off this network.

@ev
Re: %4LijCYQM2

When @mixmix suggested the looping process, you reacted like he was asking you to join a cult. - @dominic

Yes, that is how I reacted. Over the years, I've lived in a handful of cult towns. Boulder, CO (which I will never go to again) comes to mind as the worst. From experience, I know it's danger zone when someone else is demanding that I speak to them in a particular way. Especially when I don't know the rules.

If you guys remember, I didn't say 'would you all please say 'fuck you ev bogue' to me. You all just did after @mixmix said 'fuck you' to me and dropped the Enspiral bullshit for a moment.

@ev
Re: %jgIPxZGPT

@mixmix I can agree to a one-month moratorium on discussing the mcss/css issue.

@andrestaltz If you want to join the call next week, all you need to do is install Mumble on your computer and connect to celehner.com. Make sure to enable the 'push to talk' setting, because it helps with background noise.

@ev dug I'm an autonomous agent, as are you. What I was trying to communicate was
@ev
Re: %4LijCYQM2

@mixmix Thanks for clarifying where this technique is sourced. I think I get how the technique is used during certain corporate dispute resolutions. It seems to be the same as the Active listening technique described on wikipedia.

@ev
Re: %jgIPxZGPT

@mixmix hey, I disagree with this. We've never stopped people from joining calls before, despite some of them being heated conversations. Also, who made you boss?

@ev
Re: %4LijCYQM2

I did a quick search for 'listening and looping' but couldn't find any results that were relevant.

I did fin this link to Reflective listening which which is a Carl Rogers talk therapy technique. Is this it?

@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %4LijCYQM2

@dominic Communication is hard.

This overview from your perspective is very accurate to what I heard on the call.

I have two differences of opinion I want to state before I continue:

  • From my point of view, I was seeing mcss as the piss on El Duderino's rug. But that's my perspective, from having hacked on %bay since the early days when all you had to do was edit a css file to make the styles change.
  • I wouldn't ever put New York and New Jersey side by side. One is a magical land of skyscrapers, endless possibilities and assholes who don't care about you. New Jersey is a toxic sludgepit of chemical waste that delivers endless hoards of uncultured riffraff into midtown bars every weekend. However, you are correct to say people tend to communicate best in these places when they do not try to collaborate on anything without swearing or getting paid.

I spent eight years of my life in New York, so that influences the way that I approach problems. The best cross-cultural reference that I can think of is flipping the bird by Flight of the Conchords.

I do see the three-year 'nvc' expedition as a huge failure, so I'm hesitant to slip into alternative communication styles -- especially when I don't know what the rule book is. If we decided to run all of the ssbc calls using only 'nvc' I'd say 'hell no, we won't get anything done'. I prefer that people speak in their natural way of talking from their native culture, this way we can use our full range of human expression.

One thing that I learned from the call, that I couldn't possibly have learned from text, is that @mixmix and @mikey were working very hard to appease my issues with the direction of the project. But, because we are having communication issues I found it hard to see that. I told them at the end of the call to never do anything for me unless they want to.

So we're still at a stalemate about how to fix these issues. I said on the call that I was going to put together a small library of depject modules that do not contain inline css. I am going to work on that over the next week and see if I get anywhere.

@ev dug My point of view: So what happened, is over the past few weeks, there was s
@ev
Re: %4LijCYQM2

@bobhaugen It was definitely a happy fucking.

@ev
Re: %jgIPxZGPT

The last five minutes shall stay amongst us men (and @gb)

@ev

This sums up the fucking call:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lElf7D-An8

@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %wRqgL8HzL

I wonder how many of these private messages flying by right now are about me?

2017-02-08-140150_1366x768_scrot.png

ok, and for the record I tried %mixbay today. There's one thing I really appreciate about it, which is the gear symbol for the raw view.

But the errors? Yikes. Also lite client is broken. Also tabs are broken. But puppyboy is cute.

2017-02-08-135659_1366x768_scrot.png

@ev sent a private message
@ev

Why %minbay?

Much of the talking about this issue has happened behind the scenes.

I recently asked @dominic if we could bring them to the public so that people know what is going on, and the entire community can weigh in.

Around a month ago @mixmix and @mikey began working on a project to embed the styles of the %patchbay into individual modules using mcss, which is a css preprocessor designed by @matt.

In theory this sounds really awesome, but in practice it means you need to override the styles in order to theme the client. @mikey and @matt have suggested ways to do this.

@dominic asked @mikey
and @mixmix
to only include functional css in the merge, but a lot of opinionated styles got merged anyway. This trend has continued unchecked.

However, my strong opinion is this is the wrong way to go with the client. mcss is kind of obscure, and I find it difficult to code in. I think in the future when ssb has 1,000 uxers or 10,000 uxers we will be bringing on lots of people who do know css but don't know mcss.

So this argument has been going on for probably around a month. I've opposed it, the changes got merged anyway. I'd already been working on my own fork of %bay called %minbay which was just for fun and for me to learn more about how patchbay was organized. But now, for me anyway, it just seems simpler to continue to use %minbay myself instead of trying to wade through mcss every time I want to look at code.

The whole thing boils down to this: I want to be able to depend on %patchbay, but I can't because it has all of this mcss merged into it that makes it difficult to theme. Meanwhile there are a handful of people backchanneling with me mostly telling me to 'just suck it up and use mcss'. I want to formally ask everyone to stop talking behind the scenes about this and bring it into the public.

We're going to talk more about this on the call, but my opinion is that mcss is the wrong direction and needs to be removed from the code base. @mixmix and @mikey should depend on an unopinionated core of %patchbay and then they can style it with mcss or whatever they want to use to add frills.

This way we can both have different clients we distribute, that depend on the same core. This way the core can move independently of the UI styling and no one's opinion gets forced on everyone else.

Then we can live up to our ideals of a bottom-up decentralized network.

@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %jgIPxZGPT

We've already decided to discuss this thread: https://github.com/ssbc/patchbay/issues/86#issuecomment-278288545

@ev

Late notice!!!

We're having an ssbc call at the usual time today.

11pm Berlin
4pm Mexico City
11am Auckland/Wellington.

If you're around feel free to jump on the call. Mumble: celehner.com

@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %7H7mf1oYY

@dominic Thanks for reading the piece and for weighing in.

I don't have any firm conclusions about how to make the gossip schedule better yet. Re-implementing the older schedule in %decent helped me learn more about how it works though! Decent only has two pubs, so there aren't any scaling issues yet.

My next idea is to re-implement the older gossip schedule on top of flume, now that I have flume working, and see how that goes.

@ev dug nice! the other tradeoff to consider is bandwidth. Originally, we just rand
@ev

I wrote a piece to evbogue.com about tinkering with the Scuttlebot gossip schedule 'in the garage' during vacation last week --> Under the hood with the Sbot/Decent gossip schedule

@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev
Re: %CoeroLoGA

Results from my local

output-ev.json

@ev in #anarchitecture
Re: %+wrI9lkz1

Is this a merkle log spec? Similar to a merkle tree, but lying sideways on the cypherforest floor ready for tiny microscopic uxers to infest.

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %Il4y88C88

My current understanding of the replication problem is that we're seeing the issue over slow and/or inconsistent connections. sbot gossip doesn't realize the connection has dropped, so you have to restart the daemon in order to restart the connections and get your messages out into the wild.

Initially I thought this was just a local replication thing, but now I'm beginning to realize it also happens between local and pubs if your connection is weird. At least that's my experience when using a Telmex router that isn't in the same room as me.

To test, keep a local connection open and have someone walk to the edge of where you think your wifi network extends. However, don't walk too far -- you don't want your computer to drop the connection! Then try having a conversation.

@ev
Re: %JBJRvToYT

@dominic I have a working flume! I had to restart flume a bunch of times because it kept blowing the stack, but eventually everything transitioned over to the new db.

@ev
Re: %+Sd5ilJqS

The original issue is fixed. I had to install a few more modules to get the application starting, but now I'm getting this error in Electro:

path.js:7 Uncaught TypeError: Path must be a string. Received undefined

I checked indexdb in the browser, and nothing seems to have loaded yet.

@ev
{
  "type": "pull-request",
  "project": "%2ueCoCaJQkUHuPCx0R095YfB06DUziQJyGVNrMuFV6o=.sha256",
  "repo": "%2ueCoCaJQkUHuPCx0R095YfB06DUziQJyGVNrMuFV6o=.sha256",
  "text": "Add missing dependencies to [%ssb-peer](%2ueCoCaJQkUHuPCx0R095YfB06DUziQJyGVNrMuFV6o=.sha256) ",
  "mentions": [
    {
      "link": "%2ueCoCaJQkUHuPCx0R095YfB06DUziQJyGVNrMuFV6o=.sha256",
      "name": "%ssb-peer"
    }
  ],
  "branch": "master",
  "head_repo": "%2ueCoCaJQkUHuPCx0R095YfB06DUziQJyGVNrMuFV6o=.sha256",
  "head_branch": "deps"
}
@ev pushed to %2ueCoCaJQ...
@ev dug okay, it's now published. have also updated [%ssb-peer](%2ueCoCaJQkUHuPCx0R
@ev created an issue
@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %nEZgQY5D0

I think if the entire world is stumped about the fact that they're using a decentralized/distributed social network in their browser, that is a good thing.

@ev
Re: %nEZgQY5D0

I'm gonna abandon that, but what we'll gain is a full peer in the browser. - @dominic :+1:

@ev dug Great meeting y'all!
@ev dug dumping call notes (hope nobody is offended, think we should check about th
@ev
Re: %2yQO6lBGX

maybe that's the wrong @piet

Try @piet?

@ev
Re: %2yQO6lBGX

@gb answers: @piet + @ehmry.

@ev
Re: %H8YygdZZS

@gb yah, you didn't put that on agenda.

However, I think it's probably a good idea to kill Github before it's dead. Then we can take credit for having killed Github.

@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %FjT8UIUPC

2017-02-01-093413_1366x768_scrot.png

@ev
Re: %FjT8UIUPC

This is awesome.

@ev pushed to %Wq/vobdcD...
@ev
{
  "type": "git-repo",
  "name": "decent"
}
@ev
Re: %qw3bSnpXx

As far as I can tell, the client I'm using -- %minbay -- already has a notifications system built into it.

I know it's tempting to overthink this, but the immediate idea I had was just to tag people I want to know about the merge request in the merge request.

@ev dug ## SSBC call Auckland ~ 2 Feb, 11:02 Berlin ~ 1 Feb, 23:02 Mexico_City ~ 1
@ev dug hypercombo is not on github. would it be better to move the org and the mod
@ev dug Racing @Dominic from Motuihe Island across to Home Bay First image distanc
@ev dug i've been making a new ssb web ui, without client-side js, for use on devic
@ev

Back. What'd I miss?

@ev
Re: %Yd5ITOIw7

@gb Confirmed. Vacation until next week! :tropical_drink:

@ev changed something in about
@ev
Re: %2Rto2Zx0J

As I said @mixmix, I am happy to stay forked.

@ev dug > Presented without comment looks like a comment :P :D
@ev dug unfortunatly we don't have a cannonical observable implementation. I wanted
@ev dug here's a really minimal observable implementation i wrote: [`ahdinosaur/pus
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev
Re: %2Rto2Zx0J

can you just try it and see if it works out? - @dominic

No. I think mcss is going to force all future developers to bike shed on pull requests in order to change the global style of the application.

It's simpler to include the limited functional css in hyperscript, within the modules, and then style the application globally.

I know I'm going to lose this argument, because it's already been implemented and I'm outnumbered. But it's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

I learned a long time ago reading Zeldman books that styling inline elements is a disaster, and I'm pretty sure @substack wrote somewhere or told me that pseudo-code is something I shouldn't be writing.

@ev followed @Bethelwood
@ev
Re: %2Rto2Zx0J

For context,

I learned stylus back in the day, and coded a few applications with it. But then I switched back to css, because I didn't see a huge improvement in coding speed or anything.

I could make the argument that we should have everyone code their styles in stylus, but then y'all would have to learn it. Do you want to?

@ev
Re: %2Rto2Zx0J

@mixmix This example works.

2017-01-22-121141_612x146_scrot.png

However, I'm not sure that I want to code in mcss. I understand that you have made the choice to code in mcss, but I'm not sure we want to force that opinion on anyone who wants to theme %bay.

I've read the mcss docs, but I'm just not sure I want to dedicate the time to learning how to do it. While, I imagine it's intuitive to some people, it's not intuitive me. I don't have any trouble doing css in hyperscript, but for some reason mcss just doesn't make sense to me. I wonder if this may be the case for future developers getting involved in the project?

I can, of course, force myself to learn mcss. But that doesn't seem fun to me.

@ev dug [@bobhaugen](@iL6NzQoOLFP18pCpprkbY80DMtiG4JFFtVSVUaoGsOQ=.ed25519) [@ev](@
@ev dug this
@ev
Re: %2Rto2Zx0J

@mixmix Thanks for taking the time to code this up. I'll give it a spin a little later and see if it can work for me.

@bobhaugen I am also ignorant about mcss.

@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) ow that is a
@ev
Re: %VGXbEPrIw

@cel Works!

@ev dug instead of `name: true`, try `name: {$prefix: ""}`?
@ev
Re: %W9mT1LsE1

@gb Yah, callback hell has turned me religious.

@ev

I'm trying to return someone's latest name using ssb-query

This works, but if an image is latest then I get an image

sbot.query.read({query: [{$filter: { value: { author: me, content: {type: 'about', about: me }}}}], limit: 1, reverse: true}),
pull.drain(function (data) {
  console.log(data)
})

This is what I would expect to work, but doesn't

sbot.query.read({query: [{$filter: { value: { author: me, content: {type: 'about', about: me, name: true }}}}], limit: 1, reverse: true}),
pull.drain(function (data) {
  console.log(data)
})

Does anyone know how to do this?

@ev
Re: %xH+N+IEwb

It's cool dudes, I'll just stay forked if I have to. Bottom(s) up!

@ev
Re: %xH+N+IEwb

@dinosaur I'm not sure it can be fixed. This is how browsers work.

To test, try overwriting anything from the mcss files in the global style.css, and you will see they cannot be changed. You have to fork Patchbay to theme a client right now.

I'm feeling frustrated because I can't build on Patchbay in the current state, that is what the root message of this thread is demonstrating. We discussed having %minbay depend on %patchbay as a library in the lastest call, but I'm unable to implement that if I can't change the css.

@ev in #cooking-channel

greatamericanmeal.jpg

Presented without comment.

@ev
Re: %v0FH52nW5

hey @Admin. Welcome to ssb.

@ev dug This key is alive again!
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev

I'm trying to figure out how I can depend on %bay as a library, but was unable to override the new inline styles with stylesheet or 'theme'.

A quick test example: turn .Timestamp > a red, showed this in the browser console:

2017-01-20-103022_358x107_scrot.png

Obviously I don't want to turn the .Timestamp > a red. But I believe this illustrates the battle anyone who wants to build their own client will face while dealing with inline css. To override I'd need to fork the individual %bay %depject modules, which is what I'm already doing with %minbay.

@ev followed @Bethelwood
@ev dug hello discovered a hole I think
@ev dug this
@ev dug Updates scrotted. You prefer the giant key or the not-so-giant key? ![gian
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev in #cooking-channel
Re: %r1h0ddahP

The end result of @gb's cooking

gb-cookin.jpg

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev dug #websbot forking from [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.
@ev dug this is exactly what we need to break into the enterprise market!
@ev
Re: %v6NwyUFor

@arj This was with scuttlebot@9.4.3

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev created an issue
@ev dug Hey @ev & @gb . First of all full empathy, I totally get what you're going
@ev
Re: %4+DpwtUo+

could be more entangled - @cryptix

I'm reading two features here, both that could probably be implemented independent of each other.

  1. Get Scuttlebot running in a webworker in the browser. This would be the holygrail of distributed awesomeness, because it'd make it very easy to distribute fully functional version of Scuttlebot to people who can't or don't want to install Node on their systems. How do we accomplish this?

  2. Spec out and implement group private messages.

@ev dug [@arj](@6CAxOI3f+LUOVrbAl0IemqiS7ATpQvr9Mdw9LC4+Uv0=.ed25519) I pushed a fi
@ev
Re: %VuEc+oec9

This is probably a larger 'bay issue. @noffle-lite

I believe the expensive thing here is the avatar query. It either needs to be less expensive (and possibly less accurate?) or there is some hope for a flumedb index.

all load their data once the page loads. @cryptix

I wasn't aware that this was happening either. The code says if(visible), which made me think it would start the load only if the page was loaded. I wonder if there's a way to better inform the tab that it is visible?

feature request: make the side bar collapsable. when the screen is narrow, open the side bar the entire screen width, then colapse it again. @dominic_temp

:+1:

@ev dug if you are using it within a browser, then side tabs are better. (because y
@ev dug Posting from minbay! In particular, I prefer the positioning of the tabs on
@ev

Side by side view of %bay master and %minbay master right now:

Left is Minbay. Right is Bay.

2017-01-18-201554_1366x768_scrot.png

What can we learn from these different versions? Weigh in.

@ev dug i only ever cook one thing: vegetable mush. 🍲 🥔🍠🍆🥕🌶️🍄🍅🍯🍚🍵🍽️😋
@ev
Re: %Uc9ma0VmH

From now on I'm going to call the old unmtained version Patchtwerk to unconfuse myself.

@ev
Re: %Uc9ma0VmH

When said Patchbay, I meant Patchwork.

@ev
Re: %Uc9ma0VmH

I think it's clear from the call we need to focus this week on working out the last UI hitches that are keeping the %bay clients from surpassing Patchbay in awesomeness.

Personally, I don't care if we're stepping on each other's toes here. I say everyone take a stab at it, and let the best experience win.

@ev dug Good call there today, [@mixmix](@ye+QM09iPcDJD6YvQYjoQc7sLF/IFhmNbEqgdzQo3
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev dug There are no streets in space, and the neighbors are pretty far out! I r
@ev dug I shared my 14 square meter apartment with my girlfriend over the summer. I
@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev
Re: %Uc9ma0VmH
  • also :+1: on discussing how the profile pages can better in %bay
  • anything in %minbay that we want to move upstream?

2017-01-18-111107_1366x768_scrot.png

@ev
Re: %Uc9ma0VmH

I forgot to mention Hawaii time if @marina want's to jump on. @james, if you're around it'd be interesting to hear your perspective on how ssb development is progressing!

HAWAII, United States - 12:00 noon Wed, Jan 18 2017

mumble: celehner.com. push to talk enabled.

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %lagp0zQR3

@johnny One of my concerns about living in a van is I'd begin referring to it as a 'satellite in a space lab', meanwhile the guy in the house across the street would say 'that dude lives in a van!' But it's California, everything is weird in California.

@ev
Re: %uYUTrSomS

my only feedback is to suggest demoing a newer client, as I understand it Patchwork is un-maintained.

@ev dug js.ns talk propsal. Feedback welcome --- # Embracing Subjectivity ## Abs
@ev sent a private message
@ev dug This will be by way of release notes for git-ssb v2.3.1 Messages for priva
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev dug this
@ev dug The thing where someone you follow on twitter for their particular technica
@ev dug cool, thanks. Scuttlebutt has similarities and differences to bit-torrent
@ev dug great point connecting diversity and learning [@gb](@ya/sq19NPxRza5xtoqi9Bi
@ev dug getting back into the swing of things (back in auckland with new computer)
@ev dug Ya tl;dr— I’m looking for ways to replace backend databases (PostgreSQL, C
@ev dug re: [Being with similar others leads us to…](http://ssb.evbogue.com/#%lkoq6
@ev dug and it works!
@ev
Re: %lkoq6GxAT

Last week, @cryptix and I had a disagreement. We talked out on the call.

This week you and @gb and have a disagreement. If you want, hop on the call.

Sometimes talkin' it out can help.

@ev
Re: %lkoq6GxAT

and if @mixmix ends up tracking back to America someday, I'll wear a kilt at his Americanization ceremony. I've done the tights before, but never a kilt. That'd be a first.

@ev in #decentralize
Re: %zmecF/VrP

@aldebaran These are all good thoughts -- and while I'm not quite sure what you're working on, I'm interested.

Don't worry about breaking community rules. This network doesn't have squashing built-in, so we can hash it out if anyone gets offended.

@ev dug I understand BitTorrent and BitTorrent/DHT-based decentralized platforms, i
@ev
Re: %lkoq6GxAT

@marina By white people, I mean @gb is Polish/Mexican/Spanish. And I'm Scottish/German. All of us, in this heated conversation, are Americans from diverse backgrounds and diverse perspectives and diverse educations.

@ev
Re: %lkoq6GxAT

@marina bottom line is we're all white people. You're a girl, @gb's a girl. I'm a guy. @mixmix is a guy. Right? If we really want to be interested in diversity, we gotta be thinking about cross cultural interests. Beyond that, I don't really get what your fight is about. We're all from the same culture.

@ev
Re: %lkoq6GxAT

yo @marina if you really do want to talk it out, you can jump on the call on wednesday. Accusing us of being insensitive to you, when you barely share anything but links is incorrect. No one knows what you're "lived experience" is other than you right now. We can't change that unless you choose to share why diversity does matter to you.

You're talking to two people who are from the most diverse country on the planet, and from some of the most diverse cities in the world, and both live abroad in a city that (while mostly Mexican) is an international city.

This is very similar to the bike fight we had in Oakland, where you insisted that we had to ride bikes just because we lived in Oakland and you thought we should ride bikes. My friend died a bike, so I told you at the time that I was not going to be riding one.

If you want to participate in this community, you gotta show and participate -- jump on the call and we'll talk about technical things that matter to all of us, right?

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %lagp0zQR3

@dominic_temp I know @johnny and @cel are doing this right now, maybe they can weigh in on their experience? Don't forget about the downsides guys!

I know that California has a long history of people living in vehicles, but I've never been brave enough to do it myself.

@ev dug > My big concern about the US is that it's expensive to live in any of the
@ev dug @xstt your home is beautiful!
@ev dug Hello World
@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %lagp0zQR3

Oh man, this is a very generous offer. I can't log into FB because I don't have one, but I'm happy to hear you got yours back!

I'm hesitant to say yes, because I know from my experience traveling in 2012 (couldn't pay rent in Japan, so bounced to Berlin -- had to sell Macbook Air to get back to US) that getting on a plane when you're broke is not always the best idea.

I've always wanted to backpack around S. America, but I also want to have the financial padding to do so.

Right now we're < $90 USD from my dad's house in Laredo, so worst case we're just a bus ride from the border.

The other thing I'm considering is work. I can't really work on the ground in Mexico, and I can't really work in Rio. The reasoning to stay in Mexico over Rio is I know the language a little bit, so I have better chance of negotiating the whole broke thing. Also I'd have to find the money to get there. S. America is a surprisingly long distance from Mexico.

But ultimately I know that I have the best opportunities back home in America, even if that means running food to tables -- or ideally scrubbing dishes in the back of a brewpub somewhere in the USA.

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %lagp0zQR3

@apostolis I'm 100% up for being a wage slave. There was a time when I railed about that kind of thing, but after years of being independent with various levels of success, I wouldn't mind checking into an office every day.

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %lagp0zQR3

@kemitchell thanks for weighing in. I agree with you on not being picky -- I ran food to tables for 6 months! I'd definitely trade up from that experience to coding in any language, on any legacy system. I'll even design your website for you. But I also have to agree with you about low-bid foreign contractors, it's impossible to compete with India or SE asia on freelance platforms. It's hard to argue with the economics of having someone design a website for you for $5 -- I think this pretty much eliminates any American's ability to compete in the low-end market.

@ev
Re: %mgfEnwODn

@aldebaran I can answer this question!

The altnet was an experiment I did in November. I fired up an alternate sbot network using a unique shs cap. It totally works! But I ended up turning it off, because the population was very low and I felt as if I was splitting people's attention between the two networks. It makes more sense to encourage people to join the main network, as you mentioned.

Why one would want [an altnet]

The use-case is sbot for organizations. If you have a group of 150 or 3,000 people who are working on a project and would benefit from being connected on a social network, then you might want an sbot altnet.

@ev dug this
@ev

ssbc meeting! 60 minutes until overtime

WELLINGTON, New Zealand - 11:00a Thu, Jan 19 2017
BERLIN, Germany - 11:00p Wed, Jan 18 2017
MEXICO CITY, Mexico - 4:00p Wed, Jan 18 2017

@dominic @dominic_temp @cel @mixmix @mikey @gb @matt @cryptix and also @marina, if you want to get more involved, feel free to participate. We need more strong coders. mumble: celehner.com

Leave your topics on this thread.

@ev
Re: %NsP+qPBX9

hey @Joe Bomm. Welcome to sbot. So do we meet again?

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %lagp0zQR3

@apostolis A farm is one idea, but as you mentioned, it would require access to a farm. We have considered that. I'm also concerned about the expense of a car.

While I do hate cars --I think they're dangerous killing machines that own you, not the other way around--, I don't consider myself to be in the 'people who detest capitalism' group. I'm fine with using money to buy and sell things, in a working economy. I do believe that the economies of much of the world are a bit skewed right now. I'm not sure how to fix that myself.

I had many discussions with people last year who would say 'well, why are you working in a restaurant? why don't you get a real job?' and I've always said 'if you'd be willing to refer me to a job alternative to the one I have right now then I'd be happy to take it.' And no one ever seemed to have any suggestions other than the vague 'there are jobs out there.... somewhere!'

@ev dug I cooked white mushrooms in a pan in very low heat, together florina pepper
@ev dug wow, looks really good
@ev dug this
@ev dug I solved this for myself once, living in Los Angeles and using a t-mobile
@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %lagp0zQR3

@noffle Yah, I'd love live in Oakland or even San Francisco in my ideal world. After our trip to Oakland in 2013 (where we met @james @marina @johnny @maxogden and Luk.xxx RIP and saw @dominic when he stopped by, we came to the conclusion that it's really not possible to live in the Bay right now without employment. For us anyway.

$1,100 for us right now is more than we spend in a month on rent and food and anything else. It'd actually be kind of hard to spend that much money here in Mexico City.

But I used to have a loft in Oakland in 2010 that was $1,300 or $1,350, all to myself. And that felt weirdly cheap back then. But Jingletown was driving me loco, so I moved to San Francisco and got a room for only $800 in the Mission. Can you imagine? You'd never be able to get that now.

If I had a job anywhere in Bay, I'd jump on a one-way ticket there tomorrow.

@ev
Re: %lkoq6GxAT

@marina oh, I didn't mean to say that you set the trap. I just meant the whole topic is a trap that anyone who weighs in on is forced to agree with our they'll be branded a bully.

Maybe we can find some common ground if you'd be willing to explain your interest in the topic.

@ev
Re: %9QiTcQf6J

I think I know what is going on with the photo upload bug on the profile page when you're using the lite client with a remote server in %bay and %minbay

When you load the photo, it immediately loads into the profile photo area, even though the server does not have the image yet.

This confusing for two reasons:

  1. Because you might assume it has been published already
  2. Because you get a 'must select a name or image' error even though you've uploaded the photo

Now I just gotta take a look at hyperfile and see if I can fix that... Or maybe there is a way to simplify the workflow?

@ev dug Hello, bungo!
@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %lagp0zQR3

@cryptix It's funny you say that, because I told @gb last night that we might be getting skin cancer and lung cancer in Mexico City from the smog, but if we move to the states we'll end up with kidney, stomach or pancreatic cancer from the stress. Hah.

@ev dug I have no idea how to help here but this is very sad. I hope you both find
@ev dug I'd be interested to hear from [@ahdinosaur](@6ilZq3kN0F+dXFHAPjAwMm87JEb/V
@ev
Re: %lkoq6GxAT

@mixmix Yah, me too. I'd encourage @marina to get more (not less) involved on the network. Speak her mind, daily. And jump on the calls on occasion to see what she and @james can do to contribute to the codebase and growing the distribute social network to being a more diverse place.

And if anyone doubts @gb's ability to work with a diverse set of people from different backgrounds, call the Carolina Ale House on Glenford Avenue in Fayetteville, NC and ask to speak to any of the managers or the extremely diverse group of people who we worked with at the restaurant for 6-months (this time last year).

As for this network, we need to prioritize getting more people from different backgrounds on the network. And not just be a bunch of white people talking about how diverse we are or are not.

@ev
Re: %lkoq6GxAT

@mixmix I told @gb a week ago, when she saw @marina's links not to weigh in on the 'diversity' topic, because she'd get called a bully. I perceived the links to be a trap, the idea of which to pull you into a conversation where you can only be labeled a bully. You blew it @gb, please avoid these conversation traps in the future. :fist:

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %lagp0zQR3

Let's open this thread up to anyone who wants to weigh in. If you're in The States, how do you survive in America?

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %lagp0zQR3

@gb I'd love to find a tiny space somewhere, but the question I often come back to is where?

I guess if we narrow it down to places where I know people, we get this list:

New York, Brooklyn
SF Bay, (Oakland, SF)
Portland, Or
North Carolina (Fayetteville/Asheville/?)
Chicago
Kansas City
Texas (Laredo)

Then there's places I've thought about living, but don't know anyone -- Pittsburgh or any other random city I've never been to.

I'd always prefer living in NYC or the Bay, but I also think it's best to live in those places when you have a job. Otherwise you're just economically fucked.

But North Carolina, you need a car. And I hate cars.

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %lagp0zQR3

@gb The biggest benefit to being down here is the inexpensive cost of living. Our rent is 6,000 pesos -- which is now less than $300 USD, and it includes everything from wifi/gas/garbage. All-in-all I think we're living for under $800 a month here. We can walk or take the Metro anywhere we want, so there's no need for a car either.

My big concern about the US is that it's expensive to live in any of the cities with public transport, and if you want less expensive then you gotta live somewhere where you need a car. We couldn't have got anything done in Fayetteville without the Oldsmobile on loan to us. But some of the preferred places I've lived in the US are so expensive that I'd need a full time job to be able to pay rent and eat.

I'd move anywhere in the US for a job. As you mentioned, the one-backpack thing. But finding one these days isn't as easy as I sometimes see people claim.

I end up thinking the only way to make a living right now is to get a restaurant job. Those are everywhere, and turnover is always high at restaurants. It's cut and dry work, and I always had time to code or write in my spare time.

Anyway, I'm torn about the whole thing. yah, and the smog has been horrible. That was one of the reasons we left in 2015. That and running out of money, which is the same issue we have now.

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %lagp0zQR3

@xstt This is a good suggestion. I've been pursuing this as one avenue. The biggest issue is I don't have any leads. I've talked with a few people about setting up various things -- specifically I've pitched a few people on sbot pubs and/or personalized sbot clients for their people -- but I've had limited luck turning any of these leads into actual gigs.

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw

Do we have to move back to America to make it?

@gb and I have been talking about this all day, so I figured it might be good to air it here on the append-only log.

We made it past the dismal election cycle, and in a few days the no-doubt-amusing inauguration, on money we earned working at a restaurant in Fayettenam for six months at the end of 2015/beginning of 2016. Also, we both have a trickle of book sales, mostly in BTC (which is awesome, but we can't buy food with it here).

However, with all of the anti-Mexico sentiment up there, we can't help but consider that Americans may be hesitating before paying for things from people who are below border. I hate that this appears to be true, but we can't work down here, and it's expensive to get set up and difficult to find a job up there.

What do we do? queue @gb .

@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %p/CEA4FlD

I've had a lot of success running my pub with gossip turned off. Sdash responds much faster, and the lite client doesn't drop as often. It seems to be a sane default to me, but it's also easy to configure.

"gossip": { "global": false, "local": false }

But we also need to fix gossip so it's not maxing out machine resources.

@ev dug this
@ev dug I don't know why there's no _natsukashii_ emoticon.
@ev
Re: %uNdWv3ixP

We got a lot done during those compile times.

@ev dug Meanwhile, behind the scenes, Everett goes, 'hey, didn't you write a piece
@ev dug Thanks [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) Uxer,
@ev
Re: %MBsevYaUE

@Jonathan Welcome to sbot!

We've been tossing around the work 'uxer' to refer to people who are working through the user interface. Because it's a distributed social network, there are no users here. You just happen to be dialing in from ssb.evbogue.com, right now -- because that's easy. But you can move your key (or generate a new one) on your local and join the network from there, if you want to become a full peer on the network!

@ev dug Hello ssb.evbogue.com --users--, Telling, users are: 1. Computer users 2.
@ev dug this
@ev dug this
@ev dug Getting ready to fly to London tomorrow. Oh, and trying to update my photo.
@ev
Re: %4JPEzjwEU

@Barry Uh oh, there's the 'white photo' bug. Try again, and wait until the photo appears in your profile before hitting 'update'.

I've been meaning to take a look at the profile page upload process, it's a bit of a mess.

P.S. Welcome (back?) to sbot!

@ev dug this
@ev dug this
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev
Re: %P/oDqmvJf

Late night in la oficina latenight.jpg

@ev
Re: %LBG/u6lKS

@mixmix Experimenting.

I want to move towards depending on Patchbay as a library, and overwrite a few things here and there based on personal preference. I'm not quite sure how to do that yet though.

@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %Gg5YqTbwf

hey @xx Welcome to sbot.

@ev dug Been working on something today. I'm calling it a Plank Log. For the engine
@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev

@gb says she's going to rewrite her site in %depject and %bay modules.

It's my fault for suggesting that. She took me seriously.

@ev dug This is really nice! Good work. Never underestimate first impressions.
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev in #engineeryear
Re: %U4jfli0os

The final view should echo your new name. But ssb-avatar is kind of slow so, sometimes it doesn't load. I need to check into how %bay pulls the avatar over your public key, so the render happens the same as in posts and profiles.

2017-01-13-113733_1366x768_scrot.png

@ev in #engineeryear
Re: %U4jfli0os

Last night we added two steps to the lite client onboard process within %minbay -- these are just depject modules, so I'm happy to do a pull request on %bay if it's wanted upstream.

The idea is to encourage new people to back up their key, identify themselves, and say hello.

Here's the invite screen_view, that existed already:

2017-01-13-112052_1366x768_scrot.png

Here's the save-your-key (that private key is @notsure, so disposable) and identify screen_view:

2017-01-13-112032_1366x768_scrot.png

And here is the say-hello screen_view:

2017-01-13-112043_1366x768_scrot.png

Each screen forwards to the next, and finally lands you in the public feed.

Thanks to @gb for pair-programming on this, and spec-ing the ui-flow out on the white-board-wall.

@ev dug This one should fix this github issue https://github.com/ssbc/patchbay/issu
@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev in #git-ssb
Re: %sqaHjCoyv

@cel Updating git-ssb!

@ev dug # npm registry on ssb: ideas re: %xpM4b/Slhsn2GWwRupoXo07s/kVqA5cfnziqPysv
@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) Yes, I think s
@ev
Re: %Z2jLYxNqu

@mixmix Yah, right now I'm trying to get the avatar-update step a little more clear.

@ev unfollowed @ev
@ev

I'm taking a look at the profile page in %bay, hoping to make that all work better than it does. Because little @scuttlebean just had some major issues getting set up on our finicky Internet.

@ev

@cel Do you think it'd be easy to port the simple avatar query from ssb-viewer into %bay, %minbay?

@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %qrU04j9vf...
@ev
{
  "type": "issue-edit",
  "root": "%c6CS0vZit+IUtCG4tHckWOlFRzvoQMEeqx/1SVLO5T0=.sha256",
  "issues": [
    {
      "link": "%c6CS0vZit+IUtCG4tHckWOlFRzvoQMEeqx/1SVLO5T0=.sha256",
      "open": false
    }
  ]
}
@ev
Re: %c6CS0vZit

Merged. Somehow I missed this!

@ev pushed to %qrU04j9vf...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev

I did two things as an attempt to improve sbot performance on my vps last night.

  1. I redesigned %sdash as an sbot plugin
  2. I transformed my pub into a 'passive pub' %Gt1pppY...

So far sbot seems to be hanging less. I told systemd to restart sbot every hour instead of every fifteen minutes, and I'll keep hitting reload on http://evbogue.com to see if I can catch sdash hanging.

@ev dug since my computer broke, and I set up ssb/patchbay on [@dinosaur](@6ilZq3kN
@ev followed @Dominic_temp
@ev dug Hi everyone, dominic here. Last week my computer got fried when my boost co
@ev pushed to %qrU04j9vf...
@ev
Re: %TPkKv4bGT

I can confirm, ^ this is the correct way to set up a passive pub.

@ev dug in ~/.ssb/config: ``` { "gossip": { "global": false, "local": fal
@ev pushed to %qrU04j9vf...
@ev
Re: %TPkKv4bGT

I'll add two things to this:

In the pre-show, @cryptix and I agreed to disagree about https, which we talked about later in regards to focusing on finding a way for lite client uxers to not have to trust a host or https.

In the after-party: @cel recommended turning on "global":false in .ssb/config to try and save on vps memery and avoid the dreaded 'hang'. I'm trying that now.

@ev dug # Project Entropy 0.1 Alpha Finally got a little boat to experiment with! S
@ev dug ![mixs_wedding](&XArCS0U6BEjKsGAxfutokw8qeuMXc2vCSxBF6WSwbbo=.sha256) Phot
@ev dug # ssbc meeting 2017-01-11 ## Topics from the thread * [x] git-ssb: commen
@ev
Re: %6BWdR+hG8

@cryptix We can talk more about this on the call.

@ev dug Don't have a blog, so if you'll forgive me, I'll write here. It's short. 8
@ev dug Thanks for sharing, @ev. This got me thinking about the passage of time an
@ev dug Relieved it's over.
@ev
Re: %6BWdR+hG8

If you don't like my stack dude, call the Internet police and file a report.

@ev
Re: %6BWdR+hG8

I don't think you understand. I live in a 2nd world country, where the Internet is shit. And https makes my site barely load in country. Sbot is fast. Cjdns is fast. Https is slow.

@ev
Re: %6BWdR+hG8

@cryptix Are you on the Letsencrypt team? Why are you so convinced that https is security?

@ev
Re: %6BWdR+hG8

@cryptix yah! we can talk briefly about that on the call. My opinion is still the same, I think that https is slow, and not secure. So I don't have anything to add, and I'm unlikely to change my position. If you're using a lite client off my domains, feel free to run sbot on your local!

I think we should aim for better solutions, not bandaids ones. Have you ever tried cjdns?

@ev followed @MrPants
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev

Eight years (is a long time)

Last night after Obama's farewell speech @gb comes out of the bathroom, after being in there far too long, and says to me 'do you want to see it?' No! I don't want to see it. 'I felt as if I'd been hanging onto some of that for the past eight years.'

If you've been waiting for eight years to take a shit, this piece is for you.

Eight years ago I was

  • Living at The Schoolhouse in Brooklyn
  • I was dating Alix
  • I had a Motorola Razer phone
  • I had a black Macbook
  • I worked 50 hours a week as a photo editor at New York Magazine
  • I hadn't left New York in eight years other than holiday trips to Chicago and one time to LA
  • All of my shit didn't fit into a bag
  • I'd been to California once
  • I hadn't been out of the country since Vietnam in 2001
  • I'd never written an entire book
  • I thought I was going to be a professional photographer when I quit my job
  • I hadn't quit my job
  • I hadn't moved to Portland or Oakland (twice) or San Francisco
  • I hadn't traveled to Singapore (bleh) or Berlin or Yokohama or Kyoto
  • My blog was a photography portfolio filled with photos of Brooklyn buildings
  • Node hadn't been invented yet
  • Bitcoin hadn't been invented yet
  • Git was a little more than one year old
  • Linux was a thing weird people did
  • I wasn't a writer, I didn't know how to code

Eight years was a long time ago.

There's not a lot that I've been doing for eight years straight. A lot has changed since Obama went into office, for me anyway. As for the country? I don't know about that. I try not to get too involved in politics these days. Eight years ago I was all hoorah shisboombbama. But I got skeptical of the whole thing pretty fast, and I'm skeptical of this whole thing now.

So let me ask you, what if you think eight years out? When you look back, eight years will probably be a long time ago (again). Are you going to spend it shaking your iPhone at Trump Tower, or will you do things with your life despite of whatever is or isn't happening in the world?

Leave comments below. This piece is cross-posted at evbogue.com using %ssb-viewer

@ev
Re: %xF3i7RFmK

Hello @MrPants. Welcome to sbot!

@ev
Re: %gqEX41IIV

I've never seen these errors. But is your ssb-ws at 1.0.1? In .ssb/plugins and within Bay?

@ev
Re: %TPkKv4bGT

@mixmix It's tomorrow. You can still make it!

@ev dug Hey, no worries, it was really just a random thought that a whiteboard woul
@ev
Re: %TPkKv4bGT

We talked a little last week about porting more %git-ssb-web features into %patchbay, but @cel wasn't present. Maybe that'd be interesting to touch on again?

@ev

ssbc meeting! 60 minutes until overtime.

WELLINGTON, New Zealand - 11:00a Thu, Jan 12 2017
BERLIN, Germany - 11:00p Wed, Jan 11 2017
MEXICO CITY, Mexico - 4:00p Wed, Jan 11 2017

@cel @mixmix @dinosaur @cryptix @matt @gb and if someone wants to loan @dominic a computer so he can make it that'd be excellent. If you want to drop in, please do. mumble: celehner.com.

Topics to discuss? Leave 'em below.

@ev pushed to %QVRZ+aDC9...
@ev
Re: %wthMsqQ3V

@cel Thanks, working!

2017-01-09-165932_1366x768_scrot.png

@ev dug somebody didn't get communism...
@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) the jq that t
@ev created an issue
@ev in #venturecommunism
Re: %FOZ3Qa0PQ

Next these VCs need Venture Communists, defacto leaders who tell all of the other communes what to do!

@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) are you still
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev dug **breakfast this morning in mexico city** him: 'there is a magical secret
@ev followed @onemoretime
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev dug I've made a very serious adult purchase on this very professional domain ht
@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %lhFomhxCe

^ This is @gb's biggest pet peeve.

While 'technically' work should be marked with the copyright year that it is created, if you do not update your copyright on your blog you can be quite sure you will get an email through your php form (that probably doesn't work) from gb telling you that your site is showing that you out the game yo.

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev
Re: %y8/fQGaD/

I decided to explain what %scuttlebot is from within %minbay and offer a lite-client invite from within the application.

You can see it live here: http://sbot.evbogue.com

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %qrU04j9vf...
@ev
Re: %UTn/AoIVV

Another photo of %minbay because I need one to use on the about tab.

2017-01-08-165537_1366x768_scrot.png

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev dug back from NOW, a small festival with beautiful humans and a loving vibe. :s
@ev changed something in about
@ev
Re: %7guUDVUZK

It turns out our wall is a dry-erase board.

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %4jkdqfkC9

I am up for finding ways for people to not have to trust me, or https.

@ev dug ![e-ating.jpg](&i/aDzcBf45JbQb5XtOPqQvvHmUwqEcxu8mj2yJTNJqw=.sha256) Toda
@ev dug re: [security issues of lite clients](%AMIulVMNlRUTeFqXGJtm9nob3bAX/D4J5gXy
@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %Fw8f1yxz6

This is mostly unrelated to this specific use-case, but I think finding a way to specify multiple remotes in the lite client would also solve at least one of these issues. Then if @evbogue.com is not responding, people who are using lite clients can try other remotes.

In an ideal world I'd want 100% uptime for my sbot daemon (which is so far so true this morning). But finding ways to make the oldernet work more along the lines of a cyphernet is a worthy goal.

@ev
Re: %Hd8P+66fE

I ended up trying this systemd service to restart sbot every hour. I'm hoping this will temporarily fix the issue where sbot hangs over an unknown time and crashes everything depending on it -- sdash, lite clients, git-ssb-web.

[Service]
ExecStart=/usr/bin/node /home/ev/sbot/bin.js server
WatchdogSec=3600
Restart=always
StandardOutput=syslog
SyslogIdentifier=scuttlebot
User=ev
Group=wheel
Environment=PATH=/usr/bin/node:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin

[Install]
WantedBy=multi-user.target
@ev dug As for systemd inbuilt features, there is WatchdogSec. Set `[Service] Watch
@ev

Messing around with trying to get sbot to restart every hour this morning, while choking on smog.

@ev pushed to %InfGdK8RN...
@ev pushed to %InfGdK8RN...
@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev changed something in about
@ev dug Found a minor thing in secret-stack that looks like a bug. I have created a
@ev in #engineeryear
Re: %8uPSoiJBL

@gb Here's a full list of static website generators: https://staticsitegenerators.net I sorted by 'Updated'.

@ev pushed to %qrU04j9vf...
@ev in #engineeryear
Re: %fSS2PAtn8

@bobhaugen The irony of that post is that it is hosted on Medium. Does dhh know how to code up his own site? What will 37Signals do when the VC bomb explodes on their typewriter?

@ev pushed to %QVRZ+aDC9...
@ev
Re: %6BWdR+hG8

you said you turned it off due to some concerns over https that you had for a while now. what are those?

I've already explained my concerns. https is hard to set up, slow (maybe caddy is slow? but I don't feel motivated to figure that out for them), and I've never bought that the ca system is security. The only reason I went through the trouble of setting it up was because I had to get a remote script to load.

yeah well than don't use the web.

This is probably a much more viable alternative to https. I do believe there are a few alternatives to the web that offer real security.

@ev
Re: %6BWdR+hG8

Does anyone else have strong opinions about https, either way?

@ev
Re: %6BWdR+hG8

A self-signed certificate is one way to go back fixing this. However, it throws up a giant scary error in Chrome and other browsers, because for some reason Google and other large software companies want us using the cert authority system. Hmmm, interesting...

@ev
Re: %6BWdR+hG8

I have some concerns about https, and I've had them for a while. That's why I don't see this as a 'dangerous decision', but instead just going back to how things were before. And how most of the web is operating now.

One thing I discovered very recently was HSTS supercookies: https://browserprint.info/blog/hstsSupercookie

I also think that the authority-based crypto situation will not be the ideal way to preserve privacy and security for all over time. Right now it's a bandage for a broken web.

@ev
Re: %6BWdR+hG8

Bumping this thread. @cryptix has been back-channeling with me about this decision.

I turned off https because it is a pain in the ass to set up, it slowed things down, and I only recently had even turned it on.

Let's hear @cryptix's thoughts.

@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev pushed to %QVRZ+aDC9...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev dug ![sidebar-pic.png](&5evboh9NGtGEOvpIN6R1MaotEJdS1U3cz+tmeGIAfYY=.sha256) ga
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev pushed to %QVRZ+aDC9...
@ev sent a private message
@ev dug here's my view of the networks merging! ![Selection_157.png](&m05bmmATbXAQ
@ev dug Ha! [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) 'the troub
@ev dug ![linked.png](&laSEAPD4ngVwJUZtYvLA4z+semtrz00Z+aaQGZC4LB0=.sha256) The ne
@ev
Re: %iRF/QLB1k

@dominic Are you using %minbay off @evbogue.com? How does it look on mobile if so?

@ev followed @dominic-LITE
@ev dug Hey its dominic. My computer died. Am on liteclient on phone. Hopefully rep
@ev dug it's festival season (aka summer in New Zealand). :tent: :fireworks: :milky
@ev
Re: %Hd8P+66fE

This makes me wonder if there is a way to monitor memory usage and restart, similar to what docker is doing here, using bash or systemd?

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %yIhxy5FvF

@gb Don't forget

“When your army has crossed the border, you should burn your boats and bridges, in order to make it clear to everybody that you have no hankering after home.” - Sun Tzu

Perhaps Cortés was a fan?

But we're not commanding armies, so it's not as if I can do anything besides leave behind the walled prisons for our digital selves. As far as I can tell, we're free to go now.

@ev
Re: %xWbAYhR1i

For my part, I'm going to keep messing around with this intermediate solution of using Yarn while keeping an eye out for a perfect solution in the future.

As far as I can tell, Yarn is generating binaries from the tarballs without checking in with a home server. However, I'll need to get more experience with the code base and the tool to make sure no weird Fecesbooky stuff is happening here.

Living without npm for 4 days taught me that I don't want to feel that pain again -- whether or not npm is fragile as a company.

@ev
Re: %xWbAYhR1i

I'd love to see some progress over in the npm-on-ipfs repo, but I guess they're waiting for directory sharding issue to get fixed?

Reading about that issue made it clear to me why every time I generated a merkledag off a node_modules folder the hash was different.

@ev dug > How does your cronjob look? I'm using a really simple systemd service fi
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %yIhxy5FvF

Everett: have you ever regretted anything you've scuttled?

Ok, what didn't I say in the kitchen? Oh! No. I don't regret scuttling a centralized application. I actually have to work very hard to kind of semi-participate in that society these days. I've gone for years at a time not using anything centralized at all, and that always ends up with people accusing me of not seeing their perspective or being some sort of distributed technology extremist.

I remember the original Internet before centralization fucked it all up, and I want to figure out how to get back there. I'm also a big fan of the Gandhi method of 'live the change you want to see in the world'.

So for my part I haven't had a Fecesbook account since 2010. This allows me to watch Fecesbook addicts giggle at their phones without also having a Pavlovian response to whatever intense social psychology manipulation algorithm is being leveled at their brains.

However, I'm having a hard time answering you question of why people don't just get off these things.

For example, I recently jumped back on Twitter to kind of see wtf was going on in there. And as far as I can tell it's just Trumpnet at this point. Trump says something, and it reverberates across the network. Everyone reads his latest tweet and then kicks a puppy/

But let's backtrack a little. I know you know what you mean when you say 'scuttle your boats', but does everyone else?

@ev
Re: %Hd8P+66fE

I am seeing these Error: unexpected end of parent stream errors too.

@ev
Re: %xWbAYhR1i

@cryptix Do you have alternate ideas about how to make this work?

@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %xWbAYhR1i

@cryptix Yah, that's what it's doing. To change versions you'd need to record the tarball hash.

I believe this means the package maintainer would ship the node modules in the repository with their checksums. If anyone wants to check the hashes against the Yarn registry or simply use npm to install the packages, those would both be options as well.

It's not 100% ideal yet, but it's a step in the right direction. If npm went down tomorrow, right now I'd be able to distribute ssbc software.

@ev
Re: %Hd8P+66fE

@cryptix How does your cronjob look?

@ev
Re: %xWbAYhR1i

Why does this work?

http://git.scuttlebot.io/%25114l2r6ytfE8s0iagtOtuKtc%2Bq52sqEG5pxa0fDroaE%3D.sha256/blob/eca24665d9355a16ea366c3f7d5df45e6a329794/.yarnrc

@ev
Re: %xWbAYhR1i

This is a demo of Yarn. It requires that you have a global install of Yarn. However, it will not install packages from a remote server once you have yarn.

To test, first install yarn using your method of choice. sudo npm install -g yarn seems to work.

next...

git clone ssb://%114l2r6ytfE8s0iagtOtuKtc+q52sqEG5pxa0fDroaE=.sha256
yarn

Feel free to turn your Internet off for the git-ssb and yarn install steps. It should work, if you have the git-ssb blobs.

@ev pushed to %114l2r6yt...
@ev
{
  "type": "git-repo",
  "name": "demo-yarn"
}
@ev sent a private message
@ev in #lifewithoutnpm
Re: %xpM4b/Slh

Correction! I uploaded all of the node_modules for %minbay into %minbay_modules which is a total of 34 megabytes. Yarn unpacks that into the node_modules folder.

I'll do a full write-up on how to do this tomorrow. It isn't hard, but I'm still figuring out the ideal workflow.

The secret is NOT a remote (or local) server, but instead just downloading a git repo of the modules and using Yarn to install the node_modules.

@ev
Re: %mAFZzXGtO

Your hash is blessed with an EV.

@ev dug now how?
@ev
Re: %JBJRvToYT

@gb Nah, that was you pulling off my branch where I pushed a version that wasn't flume. Neither of us have it working, it turns out. Both getting ssb.use is not a function.

@ev
Re: %JBJRvToYT

Ok. @gb just tried this branch and got the

TypeError: ssb.use is not a function

error.

I double checked my supposed working flume, and I discovered that my big error was never pulling flume's branch. So I was actually just running scuttlebot@9.4.2

I'm not sure how to fix this, but we both don't have working flume versions.

@dominic If you try a clean flume install, does it work?

@ev
{
  "type": "issue-edit",
  "root": "%Ac9psaTfW7vm0SHfHEeM1HVVOxu/cW+5b9B7A/ApwBw=.sha256",
  "issues": [
    {
      "link": "%Ac9psaTfW7vm0SHfHEeM1HVVOxu/cW+5b9B7A/ApwBw=.sha256",
      "open": false
    }
  ]
}
@ev
Re: %MBZC4ix+j

@arj I just tried your pull-request on a fresh clone of sbot and I'm not having the same issue I mentioned above. It might have been that I merged it into flume or my local replication patch and that was the issue.

@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %dEM5fsoBr

@dominic It's on the %minbay branch, in which I've wandered off in some of own opinions.

I upgraded to the latest pull-scroll and the associated patchbay code that you added 5 days ago. But it's possible something might have got broken when I integrated the vertical hypertabs stuff that I borrowed from @cryptix's %talebay

@ev
Re: %dEM5fsoBr

I'm on the latest pull-scroll. However, I am using hypertabs-vertical, if that has any effect on this?

@ev
Re: %UTn/AoIVV

I realized the photo in this above thread is old. This is how %minbay looks now.

2017-01-04-124756_1366x768_scrot.png

@ev
Re: %wLNSAR8WC

Some work is needed to get %patchwork-next working as a lite client. However, %patchbay and %minbay can both be used in a browser.

@ev dug nice find, [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519)! we
@ev
Re: %dEM5fsoBr

I suppose bumping this number up to 15 would solve this issue for my screen. But what about bigger screens?

      if(!isVisible(content)) {
        if(content.children.length < 10) add()
      }
@ev created an issue
@ev
Re: %UOS8EJchI

I'm interested in talking about:

  • using yarn to install node_modules over ssb
@ev dug i'd like to talk about * your thoughts on introducing [some new users](%yd
@ev dug might miss tomorrow.
@ev dug See you there !
@ev
Re: %Wv/2CUzGH

@cryptix Cool! It looks similar to @evbogue.com, which is the big lite-client cluster on the base of the sbot network. I could probably clean that up by unfollowing lite client invites that are no longer being used.

So both of these networks showed up in ssb-graphiz even though there was no overlap? Or did you merge screenshots?

@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev in #lifewithoutnpm
Re: %HyBhmeOfS

This issue may be resolved

@ev
Re: %Yw0oWmIfW

2017-01-03-175916_689x328_scrot.png

@ev
Re: %HWFTyFnmt

Yes. This is 34 megabytes. It uploaded!

@ev pushed to %DcQl5bvPq...
@ev
{
  "type": "git-repo",
  "name": "minbay_modules"
}
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev
Re: %dz82Kp7hP

@mixmix I just put the buttons inside the message

    lb.show(h('div.column.message-confirm',
      h('div.message',
        h('div.title.row',
          h('div.avatar', api.avatar(msg.value.author, 'thumbnail')),
          h('div.message_meta.row', api.message_meta(msg))
        ),
        h('div.message_content',
          api.message_content(msg) || h('pre', JSON.stringify(msg, null, 2))),
        h('div.row.message-confirm__controls', okay, cancel)
      )
    ))

and styled the buttons. This is all on the %minbay fork I'm messing around with right now.

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev
Re: %dz82Kp7hP

I don't want to write things to an append-only log with the client I'm using, but that's me. I've seen new uxers mess up in Patchwork and end up dig/undig/dig projects.

2017-01-03-134801_619x136_scrot.png

@ev
Re: %4L9unAyTX

Sbot comes in at 22M, Minbay at 34M. One of the things I think we'd want to do is find a way to de-dupe blobs here -- similar to how IPFS handles merkle dags. Otherwise there's the potential to waste a lot of space storing ssb-pkg folders across projects.

@ev
Re: %dz82Kp7hP

2017-01-03-133521_1366x768_scrot.png

@ev dug ``` cryptx220 % sbot gossip.connect '9ithub.com:8008:@D0GsAaMyt96Ze3q1Yiiuz
@ev
Re: %4L9unAyTX

And finished! All of that with no Internet. Now how to best distribute 34 megabytes of node packages over ssb. Just check them into a git-ssb repo?2017-01-03-100150_703x291_scrot.png

@ev
Re: %4L9unAyTX

How installing node packages from your repo directory while offline looks:

2017-01-03-095937_1366x768_scrot.png

@ev
Re: %4L9unAyTX

Also interesting: https://github.com/yarnpkg/yarn/issues/393

@ev
Re: %4L9unAyTX

Reading: https://yarnpkg.com/blog/2016/11/24/offline-mirror

@ev in #33c3
Re: %3IIVqja26

@bobhaugen Is the /key page showing a remote?

You can probably get it working again with a working remote (if cryptix's is down), as long as that remote is following your t4l3 identity. Or download the page and import your @bobhaugen identity on your local.

@ev dug @ev it's me. version 9.4.2
@ev sent a private message
@ev

Yarn works now. cc: @dominic @cel.

@ev dug Didn't know about the viewer. Neat!
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %QVRZ+aDC9...
@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev dug Decided to scale down email checks to once a week. I'll go in and delete th
@ev dug [%eliminate-email](%+Gmu00ISD4T7rxrtCCqXFdg2nFwJ5pHrjn8HQRuDF7E=.sha256) su
@ev
Re: %Hd8P+66fE

I don't know if this is true or not, but I think my pub might be hanging on connects/disconnects to 9ithub. Has anyone else seen this?

@ev dug probably [@myf](@GLH9VPzvvU2KcnnUu2n5oxOqaTUtzw+Rk6fd/Kb9Si0=.ed25519) as t
@ev

Who's pub is 9ithub.com:8008:@D0GsAaMyt96Ze3q1YiiuzWhPkyou2fVTUgw8Xr+G7Jo=.ed25519? I'm curious what sbot version it's running.

@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev
Re: %UOS8EJchI

Err, it is 2017 now. Do not come to the call last year.

@ev sent a private message
@ev

ssbc call this week, 60 minutes.

@dominic @cel @mix @dinosaur @cryptix @matt @gb and anyone else who wants to drop in. mumble: celehner.com

WELLINGTON, New Zealand - 11:00a Thu, Jan 5 2016
BERLIN, Germany - 11:00p Wed, Jan 4 2016
MEXICO CITY, Mexico - 4:00p Wed, Jan 4 2016

list topics you want to discuss on this thread.

@ev

ssb-invite-mailer

Yesterday I coded up a lite client invite generator in %sdash. http://sdash.evbogue.com/invite/

Today I got to thinking that maybe I could take this one step server and mix the invite generator with node-mailer. This would create a way for people to send lite client invites to their friends over email.

I don't think it'd be hard for me to code this up, but I also can think of a few reasons why I might not want to deploy it -- because of the usual email abuse issues.

Does anyone have thoughts on this idea?

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %+Gmu00ISD

@rosshill

the autoresponder says I'll check occasionally but fb messenger is a better way to reach me.

Ok, I think I mis-remembered. I should have emailed you first before trusting my memory.

The fb messenger link can't work for me, because I'm not on fb. I haven't been since the end of 2010! But that's part of the discussion we've been having here -- the challenge with eliminating email is you gotta offer people another way to get in touch. Though I encourage people to try sbot, and I think the lite client is pretty easy to get set up, I simultaneously don't think that it'd be fair to force people to communicate with me over sbot.

One thing that's missing from the sbot lite client is push notifications on a phone. I don't have a phone, so it'd be hard for me to test that.

I also wish OpenWhisper did federation

We had a conversation here early last year about Signal and their decision to not federate as the justification for auto-updates. I think we were talking about trying to find a way to sign and distribute sbot over the network in an automated way, while also avoiding centralization. It might be possible, but we haven't done that yet.

If your email server has 1 email address and especially if you keep changing that 1 email address you never build a history that other email services can trust. That's why you're in spam unless they add you to the contact list.

I've been using the same email address for a long time. But yah, I run my own email server which I'm not sure at least Google loves all that much. Someone told me to try DKIMs, but I haven't got around to that yet.

Maybe 2017 will bring a more international decentralised option?

I hope so.

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %+Gmu00ISD

I just found the import key feature.

@rosshill1123 Thanks! I ended up coding an import/export feature because of exactly what you said in the previous message: it's very easy to lose your keys in the lite client.

I think the last time you jumped on it was very early days for both Bay and I think the lite client might have just been invented that week. Things have come a long way since then, but we still have a long way to go before everything is perfect in sbot land.

@ev changed something in about
@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) , back inside
@ev dug 100% is your claim not mine 😜 the autoresponder says I'll check occasional
@ev dug Just landed back in NZ! See you all again soon [@mixmix](@ye+QM09iPcDJD6Yv
@ev dug I don't like email either. I use it to send emails to less than five people
@ev dug So, on the plane I implemented [%flumelog-idb](%yInZclHsZiUZEfp7z/nxMj7Fut0
@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev
Re: %LH9rxc+Yf

Beautiful. Run with it.

@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev
Re: %MBZC4ix+j

I gave this patch a spin, but I'm seeing peers as 'disconnecting' for long periods of time now instead of connected. I need to take a closer look at the replication code to figure out why this is...

In fact, I think the entire replication schedule deserves a closer look.2016-12-31-153445_733x266_scrot.png

@ev pushed to %qrU04j9vf...
@ev
Re: %PrUVNfGJH

This adds a lite client invite generator to sdash, available from the /invite route in the application.

http://sdash.evbogue.com/invite/ for a live demo

@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev dug Don't consider a connecting peer as inactive. On my quite slow machine I wa
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev dug Published %GirHGP0jdbzo3MQxR3ocga5F9VQ1UCL9EfAXUdyAhGE=.sha256 which should
@ev dug > `GITSSB_OLD_PACKS=1` worked to get around it. Yes, that env var is the w
@ev pushed to %qrU04j9vf...
@ev pushed to %qrU04j9vf...
@ev
{
  "type": "issue-edit",
  "root": "%GGJkAKAnnlYXDEBI4/OIXnNnjovgLWqVy//K2ECoe2k=.sha256",
  "issues": [
    {
      "link": "%GGJkAKAnnlYXDEBI4/OIXnNnjovgLWqVy//K2ECoe2k=.sha256",
      "open": false
    }
  ]
}
@ev
Re: %GGJkAKAnn

I solved this issue by ditching caddy and switching to a Node.js reverse-proxy and https stack.

@ev

Hey, it turns out you don't need https to run the lite client. W00t! rm -rf caddyserver && sudo npm install -g bouncy

@ev dug # [fulltext search](%JZyQHYXHKpPqHpB+uiNNzSRq8MA6ImUDVPuOyWV6XjU=.sha256) r
@ev sent a private message
@ev pushed to %M0TrM+oJT...
@ev in #patchwork-help
Re: %HrISEg3+2

@robin.paulson Downloading blobs? du -sh .ssb/blobs to check the blob folder size. Mine is at 841 megabytes right now. You can safely delete the blobs folder and it should regenerate on demand.

Do you have the same results with sbot + patchbay?

@ev sent a private message
@ev dug ...after watching the Beck video of the same name... 'What is a devil's ha
@ev pushed to %QVRZ+aDC9...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %QVRZ+aDC9...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev dug oops, fixed in 0.3.3
@ev
Re: %vMl/BphbW

@dominic I upgraded to pull-scroll@0.3.2, and it works very well. However, I'm getting sdiff is not defined errors on occasion when scrolling.

@ev dug this
@ev
Re: %Y7a+Wn2Cx

@gb Dirty.

@ev
Re: %0ku797gMp

Here's an article about Eternity written by Adam Back for Phrack Magazine - Sept 1997

http://www.cypherspace.org/eternity/phrack.html

@ev

I went down a rabbit hole reading about hashcash and discovered what seems to be an early cyphernet spec.

The Eternity Service - 1997

@ev
Re: %i0VahQeJj

Speed is also an issue with the naming algorithm. Right now avatars are the slowest thing to load in Bay. @cel and I had a conversation about this over on this ssb-viewer issue --> %QzX0pns...

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %+Gmu00ISD

@keks Perhaps one of the issues here is when you opt-out of email completely, it ends up being an ultimatum for other people who use different services. While I don't use iFaceboozlezon Messenger (I haven't had a Faceboozle account since 2010), many other people use Faceboozle as their primary communication platform.

By maintaining my email, I make it possible to interface with those folks -- if I opted out of email, I'm forcing those people to use sbot. While this network is growing, it's still mostly early adopters with a high level of technical expertise.

@btrask I used Bitmessage too a few years ago. I think it was a good first stab at 100% private encrypted messages. I even got a few people to use it with me too. Then, as far as I could tell, the project failed. That's another risk with switching off email -- what if we look back in three years and sbot ends up being a failed project?

@gb How are you feeling about your email this morning?

@ev
Re: %eObUCPYk6

@keks Private messages are enabled in %minbay. Threads are broken.

@ev dug Interesting thread! First a few general remarks. I don't like email. It wa
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev dug Make the Internet Decentralized Again! or Something. (#MIDAS)
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev
Re: %Xu2odwISR

This is the old version from last night. Do a hard reload on the page?

@ev in #minbay
Re: %KKfWxI9h6

Also live at https://ssb.evbogue.com/ and https://ssb.gitmx.com/ if you want to try vertical hypertabs @Miles.

Gracias to @cryptix for figuring out how to do vertical hypertabs.

2016-12-29-170407_1366x768_scrot.png

@ev in #minbay
Re: %KKfWxI9h6

@gb Update #minbay yo.

git pull
npm run clone # need this because I updated deps
npm run build
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev
Re: %Xu2odwISR

@gb @Miles Will do. I'll push the new minbay version as soon as I get these tabs aligning a little better.

@ev
Re: %Xu2odwISR

@gb npm run clone is how you get the git-ssb dependencies.

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev pushed to %QVRZ+aDC9...
@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %+Gmu00ISD

@mixmix I buy that kids don't think email is cool. It was invented in the 60s! I'm old, but that was a long time before I was born.

But I don't buy that kids will never use cool technologies. It's similar to the idea that grandmas will never use iPhones, and now look at Apple's target market! (At least from what I see by looking around me on the streets of MX.)

We old people remember when technology was cool, so I think about how we can make technology cool enough that kids will use it.

@ev dug Maybe set an auto-responder telling people how to contact you instead of by
@ev dug I'd perfer to be contacted via means of cryptocommunications - but I'd stil
@ev
Re: %mwaB1qFvf

No difference, both of those domains point at the same file.

@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) Back when I wa
@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %+Gmu00ISD

There are still a few things stuck in my craw about this topic that I want to discuss.

A few people I've known personally have tried to eliminate email.

Leo Babouta claimed to have minimalized his email account in 2010, but when pushed always had a secret email account that he'd give people (I know because he gave me it). I'm not sure why you'd want to lie about this (cred?), but he did. I'm not sure if he still operates this way.

Ross Hill's autoresponder says he doesn't check email anymore -- instead claiming to rely 100% on Facebook Messenger. But whenever I email him he gets back to me, so he obviously still uses his email. I think it's kind of stupid that he's relying on Facebook, because he's a Bitcoin advocate so it's not as if public/private key cryptography is a mystery to him.

Eliminating email is so weird because it ends up being not just a technology problem, but a human interface problem. You gotta keep in mind that almost everyone has an email account, and even people who've claimed to delete their email are most of the time just making stuff up. Meanwhile email, the technology, just gets older and more fragile every year.

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %+Gmu00ISD

@gb Yah, it's a hard problem. It's also your choice. Perhaps you could try a one-month email elimination experiment and see how it goes?

Does anyone on the network have thoughts on this topic? Feel free to weigh in. The thread is up on my website: https://evbogue.com/eliminatingemail/ so your response will go to the public web.

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %+Gmu00ISD

I realize your pain point is your real email to fake email ratio is 500 to 1.

However I'm concerned taking an email account off your website could be viewed as 'you don't want to talk to anybody' or you don't want to answer support requests.

For example, I hate going to someone's website looking for their contact only to find a php submit form that might not even work.

How do you avoid seeming antisocial with the rest of the world while eliminating email?

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %+Gmu00ISD

@gb An sbot form would work, but how would you reply unless they spin up an sbot identity?

I think you gotta make people aware that they're using a distributed social network to contact you and make it clear they need to keep their public/private key to be able to receive a reply from you.

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %+Gmu00ISD

@gb Yah, I've heard from people that ev@evbogue.com emails go to spam in gmail unless I'm in their contact list. It's because gmail's spam approach seems to have devolved into authenticating only corporate email.

So you're saying that you only want to talk to people who are willing to use sufficiently advanced technologies? I remember making that argument back in 2010, but I met a lot of resistance from people who felt that I should keep using email.

Can we make it possible for people who aren't on sbot to easily contact you over sbot?

@ev in #stuckinyourcraw
Re: %+Gmu00ISD

@gb Woah there, isn't switching your email account off forever something you need to think through before you jump off the deep end?

One of the benefits of being on the email net is everyone has an email account. When you drop off that grid, you'll be unable to email anyone. Right?

@ev dug Love how much patchbay is evolving. Can't say this enough but its really on
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev in #stuckinyourcraw

Eliminate email

@gb said this morning that she's tired of receiving 300 spam messages a day --85% going to her spam folder.

I asked if it was possible to eliminate email altogether now that Secure Scuttlebutt works.

Perhaps having this conversation in public will help us figure out if it is possible to eliminate email in 2017?

@ev
Re: %mwaB1qFvf

@Miles If you're using ssb.evbogue.com to connect, I deployed some slight style changes over there last night.

2016-12-29-092620_1366x768_scrot.png

@ev
Re: %4F3JVzTmB

@oren Hey! Welcome to sbot. A secure distributed social network. You made it.

Since you're new to the experience, feel free to weigh in on how the UI is working for you. What was obvious, what wasn't obvious? What questions did you immediately have?

@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %6wLCrpLhD

Received.

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev
Re: %ETkPgYfur

Short call. Present: @cel @gb @dinosaur @ev

We talked about

  • Sunsetting Patchwork strategy -- add links to Bay-based clients in Patchwork readme
  • Fleshing out Bay client READMEs -- photos, purpose
  • Improving Bay install experience for both Electron and lite-client with one-command installs
  • CSS tweaks

If I missed anything feel free to weigh in below.

@ev
Re: %ETkPgYfur

@bobhaugen Anything Bay-based. Patchwork-next works.

@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev
Re: %ETkPgYfur

I'm not sure if anyone is coming to this call in around 45 minutes.

Things on my mind:

  • making it clear that Patchwork isn't our recommended client to avoid github confusion
  • making newer clients more appealing to newcomers via their readmes
  • simplifying bay install instructions
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev dug Super Coool
@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %MQ+AXRO4f

@cryptix Do these installs have different versions of hyperfile?

@ev dug this
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %ETkPgYfur

@dominic Make sure to test the local replication patch with @cryptix while you're there! If I didn't do it right, then maybe another fix will present itself.

@ev dug I'm not sure if I can make it, at CCC and network is pretty congested and l
@ev sent a private message
@ev dug Good evening scuttleverse. I write to you from my homeland: the snowy tundr
@ev
Re: %gf+DH5aSJ

Here's the last few lines of my sbot log

x.x.x.Connected ssb.badran.net.nz:8008:@+hGSCBZrKuzB/y4KzsIoGrw03fNlVj8kyYLIB2oFtAw=.ed25519
x.x.x.x.x.Connected 120.138.27.120:43761:@uIL3USK7QJg5AHohnZC329+RXS09nwjc24ulFBH2Ngg=.ed25519
Connected pi.bret.io:8008:@j3qWwQrWPzTM9zNgk0SI0FcqP1ULGquuINYEWfL330g=.ed25519
Connected 120.138.27.120:43761:@uIL3USK7QJg5AHohnZC329+RXS09nwjc24ulFBH2Ngg=.ed25519
x.Connected 192.168.1.65:8008:@ya/sq19NPxRza5xtoqi9BilwLZ7HgQjG3QpcTRnGgWs=.ed25519
Connected 192.168.1.65:8008:@ya/sq19NPxRza5xtoqi9BilwLZ7HgQjG3QpcTRnGgWs=.ed25519
Connected 192.168.1.65:8008:@ya/sq19NPxRza5xtoqi9BilwLZ7HgQjG3QpcTRnGgWs=.ed25519
Connected 192.168.1.65:8008:@ya/sq19NPxRza5xtoqi9BilwLZ7HgQjG3QpcTRnGgWs=.ed25519
Connected 188.166.252.233:8008:@uRECWB4KIeKoNMis2UYWyB2aQPvWmS3OePQvBj2zClg=.ed25519
x.x.x.x.x.Connected eight45.net:8008:@eM4e8pmRiZpeCBitqp6vq3lT8EwC5UjjKuajHbpWnNI=.ed25519

I'm connected to @gb and I've continued to connect to other pubs. Not sure why if this isn't what the code is saying?

I do see that I'm having multiple connection attempts to the local client still, so maybe there's still something that be improved here?

@ev
Re: %gf+DH5aSJ

@matt

it looks like all this patch does is stop attempting to connect to pubs if there is already a local peer connection.

This is not what I'm experiencing. What was happening before I changed this code was sbot was stopping the local connection as soon as it connected.

While I do not quite understand the full extent of what is happening here, my sbot does continue to connect to remote pubs even with a local connection with this patch.

@ev

ssbc call this week, 60 minutes

WELLINGTON, New Zealand - 11:00a Thu, Dec 29 2016
BERLIN, Germany - 11:00p Wed, Dec 28 2016
MEXICO CITY, Mexico - 4:00p Wed, Dec 28 2016

list topics on this thread, if you know what you want to discuss.

cc: @dominic @cel @gb @mixmix @dinosaur @matt @cryptix @dangerousbeans and anyone else who wants to stop by. mumble: celehner.com

@ev created an issue
@ev dug I don't have any local connections but I can test if is has any negative co
@ev
Re: %QzX0pnsPF

@cel Ok, I understand what's going on now.

I think it's worth not using ssb-avatar for the performance improvements.

Right now one of the slowest elements of Bay is the avatar query. Maybe a different idea would be to use this simpler avatar algorithm within Bay?

@ev sent a private message
@ev dug I made a new About implementation in ssb-viewer since I wasn't satisfied th
@ev changed something in about
@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %gf+DH5aSJ

I'm looking for testers for this patch, if anyone has time today.

It should fix the local replication bug, which leads to other performance improvements because sbot isn't booting local peers every 3 seconds.

Local replication is working with this patch, and my pub (which has local peers, because of how Ramnode works) is much more responsive now.

@ev dug this
@ev
Re: %Za1v/TTX+

Closing because I started working on invites in a separate pull %iddD0oE...

@ev
{
  "type": "issue-edit",
  "root": "%Za1v/TTX+psSMxQXAZ71sMJQ49/hhvDOxeo9S3lISCc=.sha256",
  "issues": [
    {
      "link": "%Za1v/TTX+psSMxQXAZ71sMJQ49/hhvDOxeo9S3lISCc=.sha256",
      "open": false
    }
  ]
}
@ev
{
  "type": "pull-request",
  "project": "%s9mSFATE4RGyJx9wgH22lBrvD4CgUQW4yeguSWWjtqc=.sha256",
  "repo": "%s9mSFATE4RGyJx9wgH22lBrvD4CgUQW4yeguSWWjtqc=.sha256",
  "text": "This pull improves the invite experience with a fix for %Ac9psaTfW7vm0SHfHEeM1HVVOxu/cW+5b9B7A/ApwBw=.sha256 and better uxer experience.\n\n![2016-12-25-183816_841x447_scrot.png](&2AF7KcUBBRIx9f5hoMRWn+dgi1dVU7+Eg8QVkosGbg0=.sha256)",
  "mentions": [
    {
      "link": "%Ac9psaTfW7vm0SHfHEeM1HVVOxu/cW+5b9B7A/ApwBw=.sha256"
    },
    {
      "link": "&2AF7KcUBBRIx9f5hoMRWn+dgi1dVU7+Eg8QVkosGbg0=.sha256",
      "name": "2016-12-25-183816_841x447_scrot.png",
      "type": "image/png",
      "size": 30232
    }
  ],
  "branch": "master",
  "head_repo": "%s9mSFATE4RGyJx9wgH22lBrvD4CgUQW4yeguSWWjtqc=.sha256",
  "head_branch": "improve-invite"
}
@ev pushed to %s9mSFATE4...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev dug Sailed down the harbour to Parua Bay onto a mooring we're borrowing form a
@ev

I shut down my sbot altnet. Running two sbots on a 256mb ram VPS is too much. Besides, it splits the vote. Running an altnet was a cool experiment though. cc @mil3s

@ev created an issue
@ev pushed to %qrU04j9vf...
@ev pushed to %qrU04j9vf...
@ev pushed to %qrU04j9vf...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev dug Greetings from Slab City. Observations: - The place is big. There is a lo
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev dug I think the distinction here is about the connections not the nodes. IIRC a
@ev
Re: %gf+DH5aSJ

and we can close %WULXhOs...

@ev
Re: %gf+DH5aSJ

Once this is merged we can close: %X+4lAR6...

@ev
{
  "type": "issue-edit",
  "root": "%jmXGUZ3fTW2ZZHC6il1QKjYRHDfU4lequgXpSFdL9SY=.sha256",
  "issues": [
    {
      "link": "%jmXGUZ3fTW2ZZHC6il1QKjYRHDfU4lequgXpSFdL9SY=.sha256",
      "open": false
    }
  ]
}
@ev
{
  "type": "pull-request",
  "project": "%M0TrM+oJT2i/phUJO/fZ2wkK2AN2FB1xK0tqR7SNj58=.sha256",
  "repo": "%M0TrM+oJT2i/phUJO/fZ2wkK2AN2FB1xK0tqR7SNj58=.sha256",
  "text": "This pull-request fixes the local replication bug. :fireworks: \n\nAlso I bumped `ssb-ws` to the latest version.",
  "mentions": [],
  "branch": "fix-replication",
  "head_repo": "%M0TrM+oJT2i/phUJO/fZ2wkK2AN2FB1xK0tqR7SNj58=.sha256",
  "head_branch": "master"
}
@ev pushed to %M0TrM+oJT...
@ev
Re: %o4/MZswAU

I figured out why 'modern' peers show up as 'legacy'. It's because Bay's /network tab detects based on whether or not the server has delivered some sort of connection time. If it doesn't deliver that time, Bay assumes it's a legacy connection.

My next open question is what do each one of these replication settings mean?

quota: 3, factor: 10e3, max: 10*min, groupMin: 5e3,
@ev
Re: %Za1v/TTX+

@dinosaur

  1. Solves issue %Ac9psaT... by forwarding lite client uxers to root if they are already followed by the pub.

2 + 3. Not sure, maybe we're using slightly different branches? There's no need for these two changes. Feel free to strip them, or I can re-push.

@ev pushed to %InfGdK8RN...
@ev

@gb @replicator I'm registering strange inconsistencies between 'legacy' and 'modern' connections. Even though all of our nodes are 'modern' they often register as 'legacy' connections.

My plan is to disable 'legacy' on a %cyphernet branch and see if that improves our connection.

@ev dug this
@ev
Re: %pWIc4hARF

uno mas

@ev
Re: %pWIc4hARF

@gb You took > a minute to be received over here and by @replicator

@ev
Re: %pWIc4hARF

Ok, I'll take that as a small bit of proof that local replication works on %cyphernet/master

@ev
Re: %pWIc4hARF

Testing local replication.

@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev pushed to %InfGdK8RN...
@ev
Re: %+btPhQbRM

Works!

@ev
Re: %qx4BTkhXw

@cryptix Is this issue accomplished?

@ev
Re: %/A8cNDODY

I can do zoom my view with ctrl-+ and ctrl--.

Is this feature request for a specific platform?

@ev
{
  "type": "issue-edit",
  "root": "%nFR9WVYfAhXN/oqngyF/ASpi8pX/F7GW2SU3it5uuIE=.sha256",
  "issues": [
    {
      "link": "%nFR9WVYfAhXN/oqngyF/ASpi8pX/F7GW2SU3it5uuIE=.sha256",
      "open": false
    }
  ]
}
@ev
Re: %YoJJkCFN8

I've never seen hypertabs 'jump'. Is this still an issue, or close?

@ev
{
  "type": "pull-request",
  "project": "%s9mSFATE4RGyJx9wgH22lBrvD4CgUQW4yeguSWWjtqc=.sha256",
  "repo": "%s9mSFATE4RGyJx9wgH22lBrvD4CgUQW4yeguSWWjtqc=.sha256",
  "text": "This fixes a few things I've noticed in Bay over the past week\n\n+ add a 'delete' option to the Import/Export key dialog in lite client\n+ turn private messages on in the remote lite client (because I keep doing this manually)\n+ forward lite client to root if they are already being followed by remote\n\nThe last fix makes it possible to close %Ac9psaTfW7vm0SHfHEeM1HVVOxu/cW+5b9B7A/ApwBw=.sha256",
  "mentions": [
    {
      "link": "%Ac9psaTfW7vm0SHfHEeM1HVVOxu/cW+5b9B7A/ApwBw=.sha256"
    }
  ],
  "branch": "master",
  "head_repo": "%s9mSFATE4RGyJx9wgH22lBrvD4CgUQW4yeguSWWjtqc=.sha256",
  "head_branch": "ev-fixes"
}
@ev
Re: %W5rZInjjY

npm update and npm outdated -l have proven very useful. Thanks guys!

@ev pushed to %InfGdK8RN...
@ev dug if you are going with the option of deleting the whole node_modules, rememb
@ev
Re: %InfGdK8RN

This is a learning fork of %scuttlebot, starting before the controlled-gossip era, with...

  • updated dependencies
  • ssb-ws, ssb-links, ssb-query loaded by default

I'm going to be messing around with this repo to try and isolate some sbot bugs in order to learn more about how sbot works under the hood.

@ev pushed to %InfGdK8RN...
@ev
{
  "type": "git-repo",
  "name": "cyphernet"
}
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev
Re: %W5rZInjjY

@dominic Yes, I ended up deleting the entire node_modules folder over and over again (which means building some dependencies over and over again.

It just seems to me that npm must have some sort of issue if it can't detect that say ssb-ws wants 1.0.1 in the package.json file and installs and old version unless you delete the entire node_modules folder.

@dinosaur I will try npm update and see if it can handle this issue.

@ev
Re: %W5rZInjjY

@mixmix There's a .gitignore too, but maybe this was the issue? I will investigate.

@ev
Re: %W5rZInjjY

Wait, maybe this the problem? http://git.scuttlebot.io/%25M0TrM%2BoJT2i%2FphUJO%2FfZ2wkK2AN2FB1xK0tqR7SNj58%3D.sha256/blob/9d686ee70c6b2073da626fa08e38a8e988b5c5b4/.npmignore

@ev
Re: %W5rZInjjY

*in the package.json file.

@ev
Re: %W5rZInjjY

@cel If you update ssb-ws to 1.0.1 and then type npm install it keeps the old version.

@ev
Re: %yPal46pZA

@noffle https://gitmx.com/%25MeCTQrz9uszf9EZoTnKCeFeIedhnKWuB3JHW2l1g9NA%3D.sha256

@ev

The fact that npm can't update dependencies is driving me insane trying to track down bugs in Scuttlebot (working forward from before friend-prioritization). Time to revisit ssb-pm?

@ev
Re: %JBJRvToYT

I decided to give this branch another shot after the call, but I'm getting this error and I'm not sure how to fix it:

/home/ev/sbot/index.js:65
          ssb.use(name, flumeview)
              ^

TypeError: ssb.use is not a function
    at EventEmitter._flumeUse (/home/ev/sbot/index.js:65:15)
    at EventEmitter.hooked [as _flumeUse] (/home/ev/sbot/node_modules/hoox/index.js:10:15)
    at Object.exports.init (/home/ev/sbot/plugins/friends.js:35:20)
    at /home/ev/sbot/node_modules/secret-stack/api.js:27:28
    at Array.forEach (native)
    at create (/home/ev/sbot/node_modules/secret-stack/api.js:26:20)
    at Object.<anonymous> (/home/ev/sbot/bin.js:57:16)
    at Module._compile (module.js:571:32)
    at Object.Module._extensions..js (module.js:580:10)
    at Module.load (module.js:488:32)
@ev dug we should port your blog to [@cel](@f/6sQ6d2CMxRUhLpspgGIulDxDCwYD7DzFzPNr7
@ev
Re: %mBcEI7AGe
  • how to fix ongoing sbot gossip/replication issues (lag, reported memory usage)?
  • how best to support client proliferation with depject modules?
@ev in #patchbay-help
Re: %eMpNBHW02

@cryptop

You need ssb-ws, is that module loading?

@ev
Re: %yPal46pZA

Testing sbot comments! Exciting!

@ev pushed to %s9mSFATE4...
@ev dug I asked the neighbours cat about this and it seemed to react - animal super
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev dug oh DAMN, that styling is typewritter barebones chic! I love it, I feel like
@ev
Re: %CcTHlP33v

I'm fine with embedded functional css that is necessary for modules to function. You don't need anything other than hyperscript to embed css for those modules.

My concern is throwing opinion into the individual modules will force anyone who is developing on Bay styles into an immediate fork -- which is what happens when people develop on Patchwork.

This isn't a problem with Bay or modules or anything personal. The issue is browsers can't apply a global stylesheet on top of individual embedded styles.

Now if there's a way to flip a switch and turn all of the module opinion off, that's great.

@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev pushed to %QVRZ+aDC9...
@ev
Re: %CcTHlP33v

We've had issues in the past where hyperscript modules have had built-in css. It makes it impossible to override the style if you want to theme a client without going into each individual module and fixing the styles.

I'm concerned that is what is happening here.

@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev
Re: %/OoJciYZ2

Minbay experiment progress

2016-12-20-130841_1366x768_scrot.png

I've been playing around with embedding sbot and serving a lite client at the same time.

The installation instructions for Minbay are now:

% git clone https://gitmx.com/%25UTn%2FAoIVVF%2F4yKI7PKIWrHeWb1q7sTMCWVyYY1XTiCk%3D.sha256 minbay
% cd minbay && npm install && npm run build
% npm start

At this point Sbot and Minbay should launch. It'll output

Your lite client is now listening at http://localhost:3000/
Here's an invite. Copy and paste the link below into your browser.
http://localhost:3000#ws://localhost:8989~shs:8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=:r00a2jOdv6leywA3HpYDWI86vjpCiFFb8CO+YAOM/rI=

Feedback welcome. I'm curious if this how I set this up is a personal preference or if this could be rolled into Bay core?

@ev dug I'll be ther!
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev
Re: %9DzSdTFoT

@susanne I can see why that happened. Two reasons:

  • you tried to make a joke about something that isn't funny
  • the image has copyright (but it's fair use if you link to where you found it)

That being said, I'm sure Fecesbook has seen some uglier stuff over the past year.

One use-case of Sbot will no doubt be freedom of speech -- which is not included in the terms of service of Fecesbook.

It could worse, you could have been sorted out of the stream for the next two years and not even known you'd been squashed.

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev sent a private message
@ev dug ok, now there also is an editable description in %kl4VgRZvAswhFGoz1eTKI/aJw
@ev dug If you want, you can check out _aboutProfile_ on [%musicbay](%ucyjPmNG0HN7a
@ev dug the ``` ... "friends": { "all": "async", "hops": "async", "
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev

@gb has one question while I'm poking around the sbot/bay code.

What is the manifest.json file for?

@ev
Re: %e+igIeFfQ

lol. I was playing around with local invites, and managed to follow myself.

Well, anyway, I have sbot working from within minbay and auto-loading ssb-ws, ssb-links and ssb-query so you can skip the plugins.install step now. Easier!

@ev followed @ev
@ev followed @ev
@ev
Re: %CfqxdNpoN

hi @slack, welcome to sbot.

Are you imagining a service for general data backups or is this an sbot-specific backup service that you're looking for?

@ev

ssbc call this week, 60 minutes.

WELLINGTON, New Zealand - 11:00a Thu, Dec 22 2016
BERLIN, Germany - 11:00p Wed, Dec 21 2016
MEXICO CITY, Mexico - 4:00p Wed, Dec 21 2016

If you know what you want to talk about on the call, list topics on this thread.

cc: @dominic @cel @gb @mixmix @dinosaur @matt and anyone else who wants to hop on. Mumble: celehner.com

@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev dug Ever been in it so deep you wish you had a stillsuit?
@ev
Re: %3fIb2KdHS

@dangerousbeans Your feeling may be correct. I'm not sure why, but appendChild breaks the lite client. Maybe it's an Electron thing? Error attached.

2016-12-18-153654_1342x457_scrot.png

@ev pushed to %QVRZ+aDC9...
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev pushed to %QVRZ+aDC9...
@ev
{
  "type": "git-repo",
  "name": "modules_core"
}
@ev pushed to %LBG/u6lKS...
@ev
{
  "type": "git-repo",
  "name": "modules_basic"
}
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %JRv7dsHyP

I'm bumping unfollows don't seem to register, because I've noticed that unfollows are still not registering in Bay.

Will flumedb help solve this issue?

@ev sent a private message
@ev

hey @saintaquinas Can you cool it on the inconsiderate rhetoric?

@ev unfollowed @saintaquinas
@ev
Re: %UTn/AoIVV

@dominic Yes, I think it'd be cool to be able to render minbay, and other clients, straight from Patchbay. Or pull Patchbay in as a dependency and overwrite certain settings? Depject almost gets us there. Maybe I could just rearrange some of the modules so that extra is 100% extra.

In my mind I see this moving towards the independent clients being able to pull modules down as blobs based on what they've declared in index.js

@ev in #pub-help
Re: %urjzHxrqf

@max I've been seeing wrong number a lot on my pubs, local and remote. I wonder if it has something to do with replication or gossip?

The error you'll see when you're running two pubs with two caps is wrong protocol version. That'll pop up every 30-60 min and is the result of the pubs being unable to connect because of different shs caps.

@ev dug ![catana-sail-full.png](&vcc4cnDNQNyjQq/m0rdUc+8O6kirCVO5zIGSy4TifNE=.sha25
@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev
Re: %UTn/AoIVV

Minbay is a simple-as-possible teardown of Patchbay.

2016-12-17-210425_1359x551_scrot.png

@ev pushed to %UTn/AoIVV...
@ev
{
  "type": "git-repo",
  "name": "minbay"
}
@ev dug awesome. :smile_cat: for anyone interested, to see existing `about` messag
@ev dug Alright, so [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) ju
@ev
Re: %SEKZjnfU9

This is going to be the client that goes mainstream.

@ev dug SecureSlackTwitterBayBook
@ev
Re: %8S07v1iXg

@dinosaur yes

type: about 
description: 'custom string here'

would work, that's even simpler.

Perhaps a pinned post and description are two different options you could have on your profile page?

@ev pushed to %s9mSFATE4...
@ev pushed to %s9mSFATE4...
@ev in #patchbay-dev
Re: %yvxGlh9Nm

@cryptop When I did pinnable posts in sdash, I just queried back until I found a message with the type 'pinned' and then returned the first message linked in the 'pinned' post.

@ev
Re: %8S07v1iXg

@cryptop I hadn't thought about that. Just give people a box on their profile to write in, and they can do whatever they want with it. :+1:

@ev
Re: %8S07v1iXg

@cryptop Pinning a post to the top of the stream would be cool.

Also...

  • location
  • website
  • email
  • tagline
@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %u4uRV4tZk

@cryptop Perhaps we could publish sbot messages with alternative contact information, so if you need to email or IM someone you can? Then we could render these messages on profile pages in Bay.

@ev dug oh, I had also encountered this, but I fixed it by updating multiserver to
@ev sent a private message
@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev
Re: %d/gwRWg/F

hello person

@ev
Re: %pPEXawpw4

@cryptop If you change the post type on your server to something different than 'post', we can make a message type for Bay and mini-fy the restart messages.

@ev

someone find @cryptix's emergency service number, for his pub will not stop restarting.

@ev
Re: %zaNZ4BfVr

This fix works for me.

I haven't tried passing a new cap in yet, but will get to that soon.

@ev
Re: %zaNZ4BfVr

W00t. Testing.

@cryptop Correct, both Patchbay electron and the lite client use ssb-ws to deliver data into the browser. Electron just assumes the ws server is local and at :8989, whereas it's configurable in the lite client.

@ev
Re: %+rPAxPD16

@cryptop Not as naive as hardcoding your cap! (which is what I was doing)

@ev dug geez.. i think i passed the caps somewhere unconditionally so it caughs whe
@ev created an issue
@ev in #patchbay-help
Re: %EkEvm8B+i

oh, no it's showing the invite code with a welcome message -- just a lot bigger than I usually see.

An invite code generator would be cool though.

@ev in #patchbay-help
Re: %EkEvm8B+i

@dangerousbeans Is this an invite code generator?!

@ev created an issue
@ev dug this train is gathering a lot of steam... it might get quite crowded here s
@ev
Re: %zO1nMy5q5

@bobhaugen Cool, so it is working. Just not very well.

I restarted my pub, so maybe that will help?

The lite client has to load all of the content over ws, so that might be what is creating the performance issue? There is also some sort of sbot bug right now (that has not been tracked down), that has an effect on performance.

The experience is probably always going to be better on your desktop, because on the desktop you are syncing and rendering all of your data locally.

@ev pushed to %aXDIwGWHA...
@ev
Re: %zO1nMy5q5

@bobhaugen I've never seen this issue before. Is it because you already have a key for ssb.evbogue.com? Try navigating to https://ssb.evbogue.com/ and see if the network loads.

@ev dug this
@ev
Re: %RmnQv7HVv

@dominic The great thing about Bay + Depject is we can all have strong opinions about how we want to cascade style sheets over our personal curation of depject modules.

@ev in #patchbay-help
Re: %EkEvm8B+i

How to use a local lite client cc: @dangerousbeans

First, find a %lite-client or build from %patchbay source using npm run lite Navigate to the location of the built index.html file.

On your sbot terminal start sbot with

sbot server --allowPrivate

Generate a new lite client invite using the --modern flag

sbot invite.create --modern
ws://localhost:8989~shs:8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=:cR161NQCeljeTwYRXtk+tAo5kuZ/Wgjwr7ohiHspiaE=

Take this invite and put it in your browser url bar after the index.html file

file:///home/ev/lite-client/index.html#ws://localhost:8989~shs:8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=:cR161NQCeljeTwYRXtk+tAo5kuZ/Wgjwr7ohiHspiaE=

And you will be invited.

As an alternative, on your local you can import your existing key using the /key option in the menu (mouse over the status light to find it) and import your local remote, which is in this case: ws://localhost:8989~shs:8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=

@ev dug what makes front end development hard: every one has an opinion on everythi
@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %RmnQv7HVv

@dangerousbeans I got rid of the /'s in Micropub. Let the era of Bay-child-clients begin! Now.

@ev sent a private message
@ev dug wowie
@ev

Welcome newcomers to sbot via the micropub lite client at @evbogue.com! I'm @ev.

Feel free to introduce yourself on this thread. If you have any questions, please ask!

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %Lxk41exto

@cel nm, it was my bad. I added some bad characters to the .md file.

@ev

I guess https://evbogue.com/micropub100/ got retweeted by @substack

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %Lxk41exto

@cel The text just got really big on the interview. Did something change server-side?

https://gwenbell.com/ev-interview/

@ev pushed to %hA3ynlJr1...
@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %Lxk41exto

@cel Linking to viewer.scuttlebot.io works perfect. Still having some deployment issues over here, but they may not be code related.

@ev

"Github [a sort of Google Docs for programmers] lost $66 million in the first 9 months of 2016" :link: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-15/github-is-building-a-coder-s-paradise-it-s-not-coming-cheap

@ev dug > turn on https for ssb.celehner.com TODO > we deploy the app over here
@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %Lxk41exto

yes, 400 Bad Request is the same error I'm getting.

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %Lxk41exto

@cel I'm having difficulty getting the ssb-viewer to accept a connection from caddy when I forward to http over https.

ERR_SPDY_PROTOCOL_ERROR is what I'm seeing, not sure what that means.

Usually I'll just point caddy at a port and it'll forward and handle https, but for some reason this isn't working here.

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %Lxk41exto

Tried it! ./bin.js Easy enough. We'll deploy over here.

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %Lxk41exto

@cel Works! But the only issue is gwenbell.com is using https with caddy, so it won't load the js over the network.

Two options:

  • turn on https for ssb.celehner.com
  • we deploy the app over here

Which is easier?

@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) Here it is: %
@ev dug Okay, so today I saw _someone else_ give a presentation on secure scuttlebu
@ev
Re: %f2JOYFNBH

@cel Cool. I think that'd be fine. Keep in mind @gb and I are using metalsmith for our blogs, so ideally it needs to be html pasted into markdown file for the individual blog post.

---
title: Interview with gb
date: 2016-12-15
layout: post.jade
collection: blog
---

<script>...</script>

I think a script tag would render, but I'd have to test it.

@ev pushed to %aXDIwGWHA...
@ev dug http://standardjs.com/#the-rules It even removes them.. ;) see rule #4
@ev in #javascript
Re: %5TfuFwcKO

@cryptop As long as it has a switch to turn off semi-colons @dominic-styley.

@ev sent a private message
@ev

@cel: @gb Wants to embed this interview in her website %YIZVZ6u.... Do you have ideas about how to do this with your latest experiments?

@ev
Re: %mwjXW5efZ

@cel I never made any mistakes when the commands all did single actions.

git ssb name micropub
git ssb fork
git ssb create

etc.

The mistake I made was passing the arguments in reverse order with git ssb create on the last repo I made.

@ev
Re: %mwjXW5efZ

@cryptop @cel I've also had some cli issues with git-ssb as of late. I think it's not clear that the first two arguments passed become the remote name and the repo name when you type create. I'd have a better time if it was

git ssb create --name micropub --remote origin

@ev in #patchwork-help
Re: %QZ1+8pbF0

I haven't had sbot block my Internet, but I do get a sense that it's freezing up on me without throwing an error.

I know this because the Bay/Micropub connection will switch to red and not reconnect unless I restart sbot. Gossip continues as normal, but ws (and perhaps replication?) appear to stop.

archlinux@latest
node@7.2.1
scuttlebot@9.4.0
@ev dug # where does patchbay start building the ``? I want to make a more o
@ev pushed to %aXDIwGWHA...
@ev pushed to %aXDIwGWHA...
@ev pushed to %aXDIwGWHA...
@ev pushed to %aXDIwGWHA...
@ev
Re: %Ja8I40FEQ

@gb Deployed.

@ev in #patchwork-help
Re: %QZ1+8pbF0

@robin.paulson Patchwork Classic is no longer maintained, but I'm curious where this error appears?

@ev dug this
@ev dug this terminology is getting confusing
@ev
Re: %qgte1t+ew

@dangerousbeans I tried Hyperterm for a moment, but I just can't pull myself away from Terminology https://www.enlightenment.org/about-terminology

@ev
Re: %DAArmdqSl

In attendance: @cel @gb @mixmix @matt @mikey

@ev
Re: %DAArmdqSl

Meeting notes from memory:

  • Sbot gateways
  • Bay should be pure view of network, Patchwork-next/Micropub should be opinionated for uxers
  • css pre-processing?
  • Follow filter?
  • Talked a little about gossip problems
@ev pushed to %aXDIwGWHA...
@ev followed @fjVqNyLCv…
@ev changed something in about
@ev
{
  "type": "git-repo",
  "name": "origin"
}
@ev
{
  "type": "issue-edit",
  "root": "%8pG2ApzGeXvK+L1iw4iU1o2LvepeGm90W3Pr7FVbwjM=.sha256",
  "issues": [
    {
      "link": "%8pG2ApzGeXvK+L1iw4iU1o2LvepeGm90W3Pr7FVbwjM=.sha256",
      "open": false
    }
  ]
}
@ev
Re: %8pG2ApzGe

This is merged.

@ev
Re: %DAArmdqSl

Topics I want to cover:

  • Gossip lag (37 minutes with @cjd's local computer running Patchwork) 6-12 minutes between @gb and I over local
  • Bay UI feedback from @cjd
@ev

ssbc mumble call today - 60 minutes

WELLINGTON, New Zealand - 11:00a Thu, Dec 15 2016
BERLIN, Germany - 11:00p Wed, Dec 14 2016
MEXICO CITY, Mexico - 4:00p Wed, Dec 14 2016

Use this thread to list the topics you want to cover on the call.

@ev dug am fixing this in in ssb-ws@1.0.1 (removed letsencrypt) and scuttlebot@9.4.
@ev
Re: %NsBSdOGO5

@null_radix Been there.

@ev
Re: %QV9iyjCV4

@cryptop I hadn't checked the /setup module. I think it broke during the depject2 upgrade.

@ev

Re-visiting Micropub as a depject application

@ev
Re: %sRD2wfvld

@cryphone2 Yah, merged! I'll probably just test in the Bay lite client, as I don't have the other two on my computer right now.

@ev
Re: %+m9FjlBCU

I think keeping it at the usual time, we can get used to all dialing in at a consistent time and it isn't a negotiation for every call -- unless there is a big reason to negotiate a new time.

@ev dug merged into 6.1.0
@ev
Re: %+m9FjlBCU

I fucked up, I meant the usual time

WELLINGTON, New Zealand - 11:00a Thu, Dec 15 2016
BERLIN, Germany - 11:00p Wed, Dec 14 2016
MEXICO CITY, Mexico - 4:00p Wed, Dec 14 2016

@ev dug would love to see this merged.
@ev
Re: %sRD2wfvld

@cryptop I was hard coding the cap into the individual dependencies, this is a much more effective solution. I'll give it a test on my test/altnet soon and see if we're missing it anywhere.

@ev dug made three PRs with fixes where I'm sure it is missing. https://github.com
@ev
Re: %+m9FjlBCU

I can do the usual time for 60 minutes

WELLINGTON, New Zealand - 11:00a    Wed, Dec 15 2016 
BERLIN, Germany - 11:00p    Thu, Dec 14 2016
MEXICO CITY, Mexico - 4:00p    Thu, Dec 14 2016

But if you need to move it to Tues, I can read the meeting notes.

@ev

Going over 'Bay usability with @cjd and @gb. We're writing into a Cryptpad!

Will go over the points at the next ssbc call. Wednesday?

@ev sent a private message
@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) I'm pleased to
@ev
Re: %p9msZZWUL

@dominic If you had to rewrite secure-scuttlebutt from scratch (giving yourself the leeway to break backward compatibility) what would you change (if anything) to make it simpler?

@ev dug I have been experimenting with flumedb in the browser. Partly this is motiv
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %xNecvUUOj

@cryptop I'm quite sure a night of consistent dunkelbocks with strong enough wifi, you and @dominic will work this shiz out in Berlin this week.

@ev
Re: %huM+CprPN

Got a new 'un

@ev dug Arrived today! Am scuttling in over LTE on the Spark Network in NZ It's giv
@ev
Re: %pg5Hy8Cs/

@robin.paulson How'd you undig that, you didn't even dig it?

@ev dug Alternative caption: **celebrating 6 years** runnin' around the world toget
@ev

sheworks.jpg

She works, I drink.

@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) the first pic
@ev
Re: %xNecvUUOj

@cryptop con cervezas?

@ev
Re: %IqgYOEE3O

oh, I didn't install %ssb-web-server at next. That's part of the issue.

@ev
Re: %IqgYOEE3O

@cel I got very different responses from the different examples, is this expected?

Inside 'Bay

2016-12-10-145207_1366x768_scrot.png

Using ws

2016-12-10-145210_1366x768_scrot.png

Using ssb-web-server

2016-12-10-145212_1366x768_scrot.png

@ev
Re: %IqgYOEE3O

very coooool

@ev

sending message from sandbox

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %foPJk6VYD

It builds with npm install pull-postmsg pull-identify-filetype

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %foPJk6VYD

I'm getting this error too: Cannot find module 'pull-postmsg' when building the lite client with patchbay-cel/frame

@ev dug ## ssb web apps: clarifying what I was doing with [iframes & sandboxing](%f
@ev dug It was some code commented out. I uncommented it and pushed the change to o
@ev
Re: %dZh4SCLss

@cel Ah, I didn't check markdown.js

Enabling it doesn't fix the issue, so I imagine that's why it's disabled?

@ev
Re: %dZh4SCLss

Well, I got emoji working for private mini-messages. However, I can't get them to load in message content. @cel Do you know what module is supposed to be loading the emoji_url module?

@ev
Re: %bILRh9JhO

Nice. pull-requests and feedback needed for a better uxer experience on phones.

@ev
Re: %dZh4SCLss

@cel Emoji suggest is working, but they're not rendering in messages. Hmm... staring at code.

@ev sent a private message
@ev
Re: %dZh4SCLss

oh, hmm... I'm having issues loading emoji in latest %patchbay, so maybe that's why the icon is turned off.

@ev

@dominic I noticed that the :lock: on private mini-messages was changed to 'PRIVATE' in %patchbay 6.0.1.

Do you mind if I turn the :lock: that back on for mini messages and implement it for the /private tab?

I preferred the icon, but that is me. Do you have a preference?

@ev sent a private message
@ev followed @xpollen8
@ev
Re: %4JpmJ7HR8

One vps has git-ssb-web as a plugin, the other does not. I don't think this is a git-ssb-web issue.

@ev

Fork of My drive keeps getting filled up.

I had two vpses with 8 gigabyte hds fill up overnight with blobs. So, it does seem that I am involved in this issue now.

I deleted the .ssb/blobs folders and will be monitoring to see how and where they fill up again. Each vps is working with 1.2 gigabytes of free space right now.

An sbot blob garbage collect is in order...? Or I can set a cron job to toast my blobs folder on the regular.

@ev sent a private message
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@ev sent a private message
@ev dug looks good. pic for everyone: ![patchbay-key.png](&l6387JlHoATyOY3CZR+yoSrk
@ev sent a private message
@ev dug okay, I'm gonna merge
@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %DcVPsELWd

@johnny I used to think this too, but that was before on-demand blobs. I pushed for IPFS integration. But now blobs work just fine, so why rock the boat?

If someone wants to try to add IPFS functionality, that'd be cool. But it means running two daemons at the same time. So if you're using IPFS all the time, that's cool. But I don't really use IPFS for anything, so I don't run it often enough to want to run it all the time.

I do think we have a blobs bug in the Patchwork world, but I'm not seeing it in Bay.

@ev
Re: %OSDN2p2is

I made local peers appear at the top of the network page - can you test that for me?

Just tested. I saw @gb pop up for a moment, but then she disappeared from the /network page entirely and was nowhere to be found.

But I've been seeing a lot of connect/disconnects to my local peer(s), so maybe that has something to do it?

@ev
Re: %OSDN2p2is

@dominic I see avatars. No issues here.

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %jyDYOxvyQ

@marcelklehr You can safely delete your entire /blobs folder and it should only regenerate on demand.

@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %jyDYOxvyQ

@marcelklehr I think this is the same issue that @arj is having over here.

@ev
Re: %OSDN2p2is

I think this branch almost ready for a merge. The last thing I'm having issues with is the /network tab, which is showing a ReferenceError: avatar is not defined. I took a look at the code, and it says

exports.needs = {
  avatar: 'first',
  sbot_gossip_peers: 'first',
  sbot_gossip_connect: 'first'
}

So it should be loading, but isn't?

@ev dug i was reading about setImmediate - [@matt](@FbGoHeEcePDG3Evemrc+hm+S77cXKf8
@ev pushed to %s9mSFATE4...
@ev in #scuttlebot
Re: %jyDYOxvyQ

My /db is at 109M and my /blobs is at 309M on scuttlebot@9.3.0

This most I've ever seen my blobs was 1.7G, but that was before on-demand blobs made it into scuttlebot.

@ev dug i'm wondering if a better approach is to make `ssb-graphviz` a plugin to `s
@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) now you can c
@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) okay cool, wel
@ev
Re: %9clsY0haP

@dinosaur This is awesome!

ssb-ws serves images to the public web.

See: https://evbogue.com/ws/blobs/get/&6/avNqHBq8nm9wnqx6dHXRoi4s5yuilh/9MFI95y0as=.sha256

@ev dug Very occasionally, my own homebrew, altho I have fallen down on that lately
@ev dug [@ev](@8Qee0I/DwI5DHSCi3p5fsl6FyLGArrnDz3ox9qZr5Qc=.ed25519) here's `ssb-gr
@ev
{
  "type": "pull-request",
  "project": "%s9mSFATE4RGyJx9wgH22lBrvD4CgUQW4yeguSWWjtqc=.sha256",
  "repo": "%s9mSFATE4RGyJx9wgH22lBrvD4CgUQW4yeguSWWjtqc=.sha256",
  "text": "**import/export feature for lite-client**\n\nThis pull adds an import/export feature to the lite-client. \n\n+ displays your public/private key and remote contained in localStorage, so that you can back them up\n+ import an existing key from a backup (or move your local key into the lite-client if you don't want to use electron anymore)\n+ removes hard returns if you're importing a desktop key, so that the browser doesn't freak\n\nI want this to validate input before accepting, but I'm not sure how to do that.",
  "mentions": [],
  "branch": "master",
  "head_repo": "%s9mSFATE4RGyJx9wgH22lBrvD4CgUQW4yeguSWWjtqc=.sha256",
  "head_branch": "liteclient"
}
@ev dug this
@ev pushed to %s9mSFATE4...
@ev in #economic
Re: %ruB6CC/2m

@bobhaugen What kind of beers do you have out there in the canyon?

@ev
Re: %4K55LQWFi

@dinosaur Do you think we can send this data over ssb-ws similar to how it works in the light client? I think it'd be cool to put this app online so people can see the network.

I suppose that'd mean they'd need to be authenticated into a pub to view the data though, hmm....

@ev
Re: %OSDN2p2is

@dominic Something in this latest push (I think?) broke the lite client under bay/depject2.

The error I'm getting is

Uncaught ReferenceError: setImmediate is not defined
@ev
Re: %4K55LQWFi

I tried browserifying the app, but it wasn't that simple to get it running in a web page. I think because it depends on fs.readFile, which isn't accessible in the browser.

@ev
Re: %4K55LQWFi

I'm going to try and see if I can get this up on my website.